ChaseChat - Treasure Chat

Full Version: The Cipher debate
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43
(11-14-2015, 10:47 AM)Doc Wrote: [ -> ]Buddy Allen, thanks for the link.

White Knight, the author's command of English is top notch; he made no mistakes.

The author's playing some tricks with that statement.

My first impression is the term 'positive solutions' is a very odd description of answers.

1. It's a chemistry reference. 'Positive solutions' are ACIDS.

It's an anagram of C AIDS or 3 AIDS. We're going to find '3 aids' within that list. He confirms you're doing it right so far because his next sentence gives examples of '3 aids': TTOTC, Google Earth, and a map.

It's just like this author to encode hints within a statement that there are no codes. Smile

This is just a first blush impression, and I'm bad with ciphers, but I'm gonna look over these 18 terms and see if anything pops out.

Keep on keepin' on,

Doc

That's pretty cool. Wish somebody could end this deal.
Forrest has made a few mistakes and contradictions in his output. I think we can allow him that.

The context of him posting the list of words was that Searchers were doing things like taking the numbers from the postal stamp dates in his book and coming up with complicated algorithms to solve the riddle.

I believe he was frustrated with this kind of idea. I think the list was intended to say 'I'm a letters and words guy not a numbers guy'. If you look at the items in the list they are generally numerically based.
(11-14-2015, 10:29 AM)The White Knight Wrote: [ -> ]I’m surprised people are still referencing this list of items including the word 'cipher'. I pointed out on Dal’s blog that this list also includes ‘Codes’ and ‘Riddles’ which covers every possible solution. I believe Forrest was just trying to say it’s not a mathematical problem.

Each person's solution must involve the poem being a ‘riddle’ or else they would have found the chest already in the last six years. So all solutions are discounted by this list. Or if you like, none of them are if you believe Forrest was talking about numerical algorithms etc and he made a mistake including all of these words in the list.

I don't get any of your thinking in this post. All solutions are discounted by the list because everyone's solution must involve the poem being a riddle. If this is your only defense for your solution to involve a cipher, then it's as bad as you calling your solution to the first clue illogical. When ff says "knowing about" in this list it is inferred that the list of overrated complexities are what searchers have brought from OUTSIDE the poem. So, it's got nothing to do with the poem being a riddle and so not all solutions are invalid by this list. It's straightforward and ff said in another setting that there's no specialized knowledge needed. We all know the poem is something you have to solve in some fashion. But I and many others can put forth a solution that is straightforward that doesn't involve any other riddles, codes, ciphers or any other way listed in that scrapbook which invalidates your thinking here. Which in turn invalidates your use of a cipher.

I'm on the road heading south so I'll check in as much as I can:-)

Bet

(11-14-2015, 11:33 AM)Doc Wrote: [ -> ]Bet,

Don't become discouraged--you're one of the most positive people I've encountered on this forum. Mr. Fenn isn't being mean-spirited about it, not in the least.

He's just really tricky. Slippery as an eel. Master of Misdirection.

You know I think 'warm waters' is Luke, and 'canyon' is Grand. That isn't difficult. It's just really, really clever of the author. People have been searching bodies of water and canyons for the past five years because of that statement.

I'm having a blast.

You're not going to need to be a cipher expert to solve his chest. What White Knight, Wild Goose, and djmmcv found won't be used to find the chest. That in no way invalidates their findings--they just found something WAY WAY sooner than was intended. In other words, those god-awfully hard ciphers aren't indicative of what we'll need to find Mr. Fenn's chest.

Hang in there sister, we've got a ways to go yet.

Just don't take anything the Trickster tells you at face value. Scratch at it a little bit and see what's underneath. He's actually attempting to be quite helpful, just in a very sly manner.

Doc

Thanks Doc...I like how you have approached this poem, and it has made me dig deeper, however, I just can't give in on the Lewis and Clark cipher.....it is just to random....a different key word applied to each line....it makes no sense to me. If a single key had worked on all lines well that would be another story.
Bet,

The keywords aren’t different on each line. On 4 lines they’re ‘FENN’ ‘INFAMY BOUND’ and on 3 lines ‘FENN’ ‘INVICTUS’. These keywords cover the bulk of the decryption.

Fundamental Design,

It’s quite simple. The poem / Thrill of the Chase treasure hunt has to be a riddle otherwise the construct wouldn't have taken 15 years to create and you would have found the chest in the first 3 hours.

If a Searcher takes this list as gospel then it invalidates their solution and everyone’s solution.

My point is the list can’t be taken as gospel. Forrest has not expressly ruled out ‘ciphers’ as he did for say ‘Utah’. It’s just he included the word cipher in a long list of words. Due to the inclusion of the other words such as ‘riddle’ this list is useless as the only evidence against use of a cipher.

I believe Forrest was targeting numerical solutions with his list. It looks like he was driven by frustration caused by Searchers submitting these solutions and was trying to think of as many words as possible to describe and discount all numerical ‘patterns’.

In my e-book I have provided a solution that generates geographical co-ordinates using a Lewis & Clark cipher that are very very very unlikely to be produced by chance.

I believe Forrest made a mistake issuing this list of words as ciphers, riddles and codes can be interpreted to encompass all solutions.

Should have said 'generates geographical directions' not just co-ordinates.
Still trying to sell books are we Andy?...I find it hard to believe that people are buying into these convoluted ideas...Sorry to say so pal, but you missed by a mile on this one IMO...I do know you certainly have one thing correct that I won't mention here since it is too revealing...But all this cipher stuff is, unfortunately, not going to help anyone including you...Except of course to continue making money from e-book sales...

There are no ciphers or codes or drones!...Although FF included many things in his list that would not aid a searcher, he excluded a few and one especially that gives a 'positive solution'...And it takes no specialized knowledge of any kind to figure it out...A little imagination goes a long way...

I can tell you that almost everyone on this blog has common knowledge of the method needed, yet maybe(with a little luck) only a handful will ever realize what that is or how to use it...I will be the first to admit that I didn't realize it myself until I was shown by an old searcher who asked for a partner what that method was...But when I saw it I recognized immediately what I was seeing and where I had seen it before...

I will tell you this for true...There is a key, but you have the wrong key and the wrong idea about using it...The key unlocks the poem to reveal the search location by name and that is only the beginning of a proper solution...The remainder of the poem tells one where to look once there...And I do now know where to go look...

I won't pretend to know the WHY or WHAT FOR in FF's choice of this locale although I have a few ideas...It isn't necessary IMO to try and figure out his philosophy or the psychology driving his choices...It only matters if I can understand what the clues mean...

I don't expect that any will believe me on this but that matters not...It just means I will not cross trails with another searcher in my quest for the chest...I see that as a plus...

Best of luck with the book sales Andy...Hope you make gobs of money...I just want the gold...KISS...
(11-14-2015, 09:44 PM)samsmith Wrote: [ -> ]Still trying to sell books are we Andy?...I find it hard to believe that people are buying into these convoluted ideas...Sorry to say so pal, but you missed by a mile on this one IMO...I do know you certainly have one thing correct that I won't mention here since it is too revealing...But all this cipher stuff is, unfortunately, not going to help anyone including you...Except of course to continue making money from e-book sales...

There are no ciphers or codes or drones!...Although FF included many things in his list that would not aid a searcher, he excluded a few and one especially that gives a 'positive solution'...And it takes no specialized knowledge of any kind to figure it out...A little imagination goes a long way...

I can tell you that almost everyone on this blog has common knowledge of the method needed, yet maybe(with a little luck) only a handful will ever realize what that is or how to use it...I will be the first to admit that I didn't realize it myself until I was shown by an old searcher who asked for a partner what that method was...But when I saw it I recognized immediately what I was seeing and where I had seen it before...

I will tell you this for true...There is a key, but you have the wrong key and the wrong idea about using it...The key unlocks the poem to reveal the search location by name and that is only the beginning of a proper solution...The remainder of the poem tells one where to look once there...And I do now know where to go look...

I won't pretend to know the WHY or WHAT FOR in FF's choice of this locale although I have a few ideas...It isn't necessary IMO to try and figure out his philosophy or the psychology driving his choices...It only matters if I can understand what the clues mean...

I don't expect that any will believe me on this but that matters not...It just means I will not cross trails with another searcher in my quest for the chest...I see that as a plus...

Best of luck with the book sales Andy...Hope you make gobs of money...I just want the gold...KISS...

One of the reasons I dismiss any kind of (non GPS) code is simply because the place where the chest is hidden is unlikely to be a named place on a map especially if its deep in the wilderness and quite some distance from a human trail. Most mountains or hills dont even have a name. The only exception may be the good map F was referring to but there is no way of knowing which map that is if it even exists.
@White Knight, ha..what you are missing and will have no good explanation is that right after ff's list of over complexities, which includes ciphers, he lists excellent research materials. "Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth and/or a good map". That's clear as day and in the same statement. What's also clear as day is the poem is in TTOTC. So the poem is not on your make belief list of over complexities. Nice try but the poem is obviously in play. Can't belief we are having this discussion. Your reliance on what you keep saying about it is missing good logic.
SamSmith,

Your basic premise is that I can’t be right because you’re right. There’s no further logic involved.
I’ve published my solution so all can see the logic, evidence and method behind it.

In contrast your output amounts to: ‘I know something you don’t, I bet you can’t guess what it is? I’m so clever, tee hee hee’

Rather than looking at my solution, the evidence behind it and how the directions I’ve revealed are very unlikely to be arrived at by chance your comments sound like the voice of envy.

It’s up to me how I disseminate the right solution to other Searchers and whether I charge for my e-book.

If you have found a key to unlock your solution then your solution is based on the construct being a RIDDLE so your solution is discounted by the list of words provided by Forrest if you believe this list should be taken as gospel.

Harry Fool,

It’s not a GPS code.

In my solution I’ve revealed a set of directions from a starting point. No place names are used in the geographical directions, just physical features and directions of travel.

Fundamental design,

What are you talking about? The list says a knowledge of RIDDLES will not assist anyone to the treasure chest location.

The construct of the poem / Thrill of the Chase treasure hunt is a RIDDLE.

So I would have said a knowledge of RIDDLES is absolutely essential in assisting a Searcher to the treasure chest location. So the list is flawed. It’s a mistake.

No one has said TTOTC, Google Earth and/or a good map aren’t good research materials? I used all of those to help solve the RIDDLE.
@White Knight
What am I talking about? I clearly wrote that my interpretation of the list of overcomplexities involves all the listed ways that are OUTSIDE of the poem. Is that illogical of me to write? Because in the next 2 seconds of writing of what you say is a flawed list ff writes a get out of jail free card for me and everyone else that agrees the poem is exempt from the list...even though we weren't ever in jail, lol. He writes excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map. The poem is in TTOTC. You don't have one of those get out of jail free cards for your cipher, do you? See, the important thing is to not be included in the first list of overcomplexities but be included in the second get out of jail free list.

Nothing personal White Knoght, I feel it's ok to scrutinize large claims if one finds illogical points to their solution. I think it helps propel the searcher's position in whatever way they take it.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43