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The Nine Clue List - mdavis19 - 05-06-2015

Finally!!! After all my harping and cajoling about everyone ignoring the first stanza, finally we have a good discussion going. I have been firmly convinced for a long time that WWWH is not the first clue in the poem, and we will never find the correct WWWH unless we understand the meaning of the first stanza.



Much of the discussion in the last two pages of this thread parallels my own thoughts on the subject. Bold is an important word. It could very well be the word that is key. There is a reason bold may be important that no one has yet mentioned. Think hard about it.



Hinting of riches new and old is something I have always taken to mean the starting point will be near two important things. One "new" and one "old." Before warm waters can halt, they must first start or begin somewhere. I believe the first stanza describes the place where the warm waters begin. It may be a place with something new and something old that are of great importance (at least to Forrest) nearby.



A lot of people waste their time looking around hot springs and other places where warm waters begin and taking that incorrectly as the place where warm waters halt. That is the wrong kind of place, IMHO. It puts searchers far from where they actually need to be by the first sentence of the second stanza. If you have the first stanza figured out and know where the warm waters begin, it should become much clearer where they halt.



mdavis19


The Nine Clue List - Jack - 05-06-2015



<div class="bbcode_quote_head">Quote:
<b>Quote from mdavis19 on May 6, 2015, 5:51 am</b>

Finally!!! After all my harping and cajoling about everyone ignoring the first stanza, finally we have a good discussion going. I have been firmly convinced for a long time that WWWH is not the first clue in the poem, and we will never find the correct WWWH unless we understand the meaning of the first stanza.



Much of the discussion in the last two pages of this thread parallels my own thoughts on the subject. Bold is an important word. It could very well be the word that is key. There is a reason bold may be important that no one has yet mentioned. Think hard about it.



Hinting of riches new and old is something I have always taken to mean the starting point will be near two important things. One "new" and one "old." Before warm waters can halt, they must first start or begin somewhere. I believe the first stanza describes the place where the warm waters begin. It may be a place with something new and something old that are of great importance (at least to Forrest) nearby.



A lot of people waste their time looking around hot springs and other places where warm waters begin and taking that incorrectly as the place where warm waters halt. That is the wrong kind of place, IMHO. It puts searchers far from where they actually need to be by the first sentence of the second stanza. If you have the first stanza figured out and know where the warm waters begin, it should become much clearer where they halt.



mdavis19
</div>


Good analysis Mike! Remember his answer to this question:



Will the poem lead you to the treasure?

“Yes if you know where to start.”




The Nine Clue List - mdc777 - 05-06-2015

That's good Stephanie I never thought of it that way.






The Nine Clue List - mdavis19 - 05-06-2015



<div class="bbcode_quote_head">Quote:
<b>Quote from Jack on May 6, 2015, 6:36 am</b>
<div class="bbcode_quote">
<div class="bbcode_quote_head">Quote:
<b>Quote from mdavis19 on May 6, 2015, 5:51 am</b>

Finally!!! After all my harping and cajoling about everyone ignoring the first stanza, finally we have a good discussion going. I have been firmly convinced for a long time that WWWH is not the first clue in the poem, and we will never find the correct WWWH unless we understand the meaning of the first stanza.



Much of the discussion in the last two pages of this thread parallels my own thoughts on the subject. Bold is an important word. It could very well be the word that is key. There is a reason bold may be important that no one has yet mentioned. Think hard about it.



Hinting of riches new and old is something I have always taken to mean the starting point will be near two important things. One "new" and one "old." Before warm waters can halt, they must first start or begin somewhere. I believe the first stanza describes the place where the warm waters begin. It may be a place with something new and something old that are of great importance (at least to Forrest) nearby.



A lot of people waste their time looking around hot springs and other places where warm waters begin and taking that incorrectly as the place where warm waters halt. That is the wrong kind of place, IMHO. It puts searchers far from where they actually need to be by the first sentence of the second stanza. If you have the first stanza figured out and know where the warm waters begin, it should become much clearer where they halt.



mdavis19
</div>


Good analysis Mike! Remember his answer to this question:



Will the poem lead you to the treasure?

“Yes if you know where to start.”</div>
</div>


Yes, if you know where to start. How many times has he said that? A lot of people ASSume WWWH is where you start because he says "Begin it where..." But if you really think about it, You can't start at WWWH because nobody knows where it is. Even if you did know for certain where it is, unless you just happen to live there already, your journey to the treasure isn't going to start there. We need to start somewhere else. I think it is where warm waters begin, and I believe the first stanza tell us where that is, or at least considerably narrows it down.



mdavis19


The Nine Clue List - mdc777 - 05-06-2015

Do you know how the first stanza does that Mdavis?


The Nine Clue List - mdavis19 - 05-06-2015



<div class="bbcode_quote_head">Quote:
<b>Quote from mdc777 on May 6, 2015, 1:01 pm</b>

Do you know how the first stanza does that Mdavis?
</div>


I have some ideas. I think there is actually a lot going on in the first stanza. There is at least one clue, several hints, and maybe the word that is key. The first stanza may be the key to understanding the rest of the poem. Interestingly my new understanding of the first stanza is pointing me back to a place I dismissed years ago, but it is pointing me there for completely different reasons than before.



mdavis19


The Nine Clue List - notevenclose - 05-06-2015

Everyone's looking at this the wrong way. If you have a list of 9 clues, and it ignores 15 of the poem's lines, you aren't even remotely close. Almost every word is meaningful. You can't just disregard half the poem. There's a reason why you begin so far in - and end so far from the end: that extraneous bit is important!



So, why do you begin so far into the poem? Because, you need a whole bunch of clues to find the location you start at. Warm Waters Halt isn't the only clue to the first spot (as that describes almost anywhere in the Rockies). It's just one of the clues. There's also: alone, treasures, bold, secret, where, riches, new and old, and a canyon south or downhill. You need to solve them all to know where to start.



Oh, and could you please elaborate on this quote:



<div class="bbcode_quote_head">Quote:
Forrest talked about twisting a word on jennys site a word that is a key that can unlock. He also talks about sliding.
</div>


One of my solutions (which I don't think is right) involves that word not once, not twice, not three times, but four times no less! Interesting coincidence...


The Nine Clue List - deb - 05-06-2015

Love the name Notevenclose. I agree with everything you said, thats been my choice since day one. Welcome to the blog.


The Nine Clue List - jdh - 05-06-2015



<div class="bbcode_quote_head">Quote:
<b>Quote from mdc777 on May 6, 2015, 12:23 pm</b>



You are thinking of treasures as a physical object I am thinking of it as a word in the poem (as I have gone alone in the poem)


</div>


OK, I'll sit in the corner for a spell. Let me know if my dunce cap is straight.



I think of treasures as physical objects because that's what words are for: to convey an idea and that's the idea I think Mr. Fenn is trying to convey. Words are symbols of an idea being expressed. Therefore the word treasures is a symbol Mr. Fenn used to convey a specific idea. It cannot be just a word. It has a specific intended meaning. How can I think of it as a word without thinking of it's possible intended meaning?



I don't know how to do that. Can you hold my hand and lead me there?



jdh










The Nine Clue List - notevenclose - 05-06-2015

Yes, this is <b>a lot</b> more complicated than people realize.



Here, I'll try to explain, by way of example...:



This is one of my starting positions. But, I don't think it's the right one. So, this is an interpretation I think is probably wrong. Bear that in mind. I think the real solution is MORE complicated than this...



AS I HAVE GONE ALONE IN THERE



Not much to go on, but it's a place where you go alone. And, it's probably somewhere FF's been before (other than just hiding the chest).



AND WITH MY TREASURES BOLD,



Again, not much here either. Unless... Bold means prominent - or a noticeable appearance of some sort. Something that sticks out. Treasures = jewels = family jewels. So, we could be looking for a place one (FF) would go alone and naked.



I CAN KEEP MY SECRET WHERE,



Keep could mean castle keep, which (coincidentally?) is <i>exactly</i> where you keep your gold and jewels. Or, maybe it's secret which is important. Are we looking for Fenn's secret skinny dipping pool? Turns out he in fact <b>had</b> a secret skinny-dipping pool - Ojo Caliente on the Firehole. And, he used to bathe there in the exact spot where hot spring water met the cold river water. Exactly on the spot where warm waters halted. Literally to the foot. One foot in either direction and it was too cold or too warm.



AND HINT OF RICHES NEW AND OLD.



Could be a simple reference to the old treasures of Yellowstone and the new treasures in the box. But, hinting does also mean leaning towards (as well as clue). And, we do have two directions we can head in - one towards 'OLD' Faithful. So, presumably, 'new treasures' are the other way... Not sure.





BEGIN IT WHERE WARM WATERS HALT...



Interestingly, Ojo Caliente is the very last hot spring heading north away from Old Faithful. So, it's not just where the warm waters halt and mix with cold waters - it's also where the hot springs themselves halt. It solves the clue in multiple ways (I've noticed that a lot as I've worked through the poem, the puzzle seems to have lines that mean two different things, but both seem to lead to the same spot).



And, again, I don't think this solve is quite good enough. I think there's a lot more to it than that. So, if your solution for WWWH ignores all these important words, there's almost no chance it's right...



There's way more to this than meets the eye. The solution should be simple and elegant, but getting there sure as hell won't be...