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THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
08-29-2017, 08:07 AM,
#41
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Fundamental is just giving his opinion; but just to say one thing, it isn't exactly an X. But that's just in my trip I suppose. It is only a "thoughts out loud" posting board. I guess we can just take it or leave it.
Hints help at the site/ on the way to the site and not one have I found that points to WWWh; except... IMO...
just saying ss
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08-29-2017, 08:12 AM,
#42
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-29-2017, 08:09 AM)crazyfamily Wrote:
(08-29-2017, 07:39 AM)fundamental design Wrote: And while we're at it can you show us how a hint can help a later clue. I mean, no one yet has been able to show or tell specifically how that would work. You can describe one that you think isn't even a real hint. I'm just trying to understand the mindset of what it means for a hint to help a clue later on in the poem. Can anybody do this..:.
Yes, I could do it, but I would want to charge for my time. I've worked on this for four years. That's got to be worth $200,000 minimum.






razyfamily

What part can you do?

Pays to be a winner.
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08-29-2017, 08:23 AM,
#43
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-29-2017, 03:26 AM)AccountAtAGlance Wrote: Did FF say there was an 'unintended' hint/clue in the preface and that it was 'obvious' or something to that effect? I imagine that I know what it is. Has anyone been so bold to openly speculate about what is the unintended clue in the preface?

You're speaking about TFTW, not TTOTC. I don't know that he ever said that the unintended hint was in the preface. I've forgotten the exact language he used on that, but he said there were a few clues in the book and then changed his wording from "clues" to "hints". He mentioned that the map did not show any of Canada so that the Canadian rockies were inadvertently removed from the search area. I don't believe that was accidental for a second. I'm pretty sure Forrest did a lot of fiddling with his hands on the controls on the TFTW map. In the preface he says that 10 miles is too far to talk now. I seriously doubt that was a slip though.
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08-29-2017, 08:44 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-29-2017, 08:48 AM by The Count.)
#44
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-29-2017, 07:39 AM)fundamental design Wrote: And while we're at it can you show us how a hint can help a later clue. I mean, no one yet has been able to show or tell specifically how that would work. You can describe one that you think isn't even a real hint. I'm just trying to understand the mindset of what it means for a hint to help a clue later on in the poem. Can anybody do this..:.

Cause I've already written about my hints numerous times. Some in this thread have seen and responded to my posts about that. So, the one asking me to show mine and saying I'm doing a short cut cause I can't solve the clues in the poem ought to do better research.
Wow I take a night off and this thread turns into a cluster fu...

Well Fun, I haven't been able to find much in the book that helps with the poem except for 1 thing, and it helps with most of the poem. Not just WWWH, so to say that only the hints help with just WWWH is only one way to look at it. Its no big secret what I believe is the 1 thing I found troughout the book that helps with most of the poem for me and Mindy actual touched on part of it in one of her recent threads.

What I describe here is not to help with what a clue might be but rather to help understand what a "entire" clue is within the poem, so valuable information that all pertains to one clue in the poem is used to uncover or solve a "single" clue within the poem.

Heres a example, which is a clue in its entirety?

Begin it where warm waters halt

OR,

Begin it where warm waters halt
And take it in the canyon down,

OR,

Begin it where warm waters halt
And take it in the canyon down,
Not far, but too far to walk.

Depending on which searcher you ask you may get different answers but if there is something in the book that helps us understand which of the above is a clue in its "entirety" and this method can be used troughout the poem then it helps with more than just WWWH. By now you all should know I like to include a quote to help my way of thinking so here you go.

You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?
Your question reminds me of another: You leave home and walk a straight line for a mile, turn 90 degrees left and walk a curved line for a mile and shoot a bear. Then you turn 90 degrees left again and walk a straight line back to your home. What color is the bear?f
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08-29-2017, 08:45 AM,
#45
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-29-2017, 08:30 AM)crazyfamily Wrote:
(08-29-2017, 08:12 AM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-29-2017, 08:09 AM)crazyfamily Wrote:
(08-29-2017, 07:39 AM)fundamental design Wrote: And while we're at it can you show us how a hint can help a later clue. I mean, no one yet has been able to show or tell specifically how that would work. You can describe one that you think isn't even a real hint. I'm just trying to understand the mindset of what it means for a hint to help a clue later on in the poem. Can anybody do this..:.
Yes, I could do it, but I would want to charge for my time. I've worked on this for four years. That's got to be worth $200,000 minimum.






razyfamily



What part can you do?


I could show you hints to the search area and at least three clues, but I would charge $200,000 for my time.




razyfamily

I might have to ask for a discount since I don't really know what you mean when you say hints to the search area and at least three clues. I'm not sure that's what I asked for.

Pays to be a winner.
Reply
08-29-2017, 09:15 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-29-2017, 09:16 AM by fundamental design.)
#46
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-29-2017, 08:44 AM)The Count Wrote:
(08-29-2017, 07:39 AM)fundamental design Wrote: And while we're at it can you show us how a hint can help a later clue. I mean, no one yet has been able to show or tell specifically how that would work. You can describe one that you think isn't even a real hint. I'm just trying to understand the mindset of what it means for a hint to help a clue later on in the poem. Can anybody do this..:.

Cause I've already written about my hints numerous times. Some in this thread have seen and responded to my posts about that. So, the one asking me to show mine and saying I'm doing a short cut cause I can't solve the clues in the poem ought to do better research.
Wow I take a night off and this thread turns into a cluster fu...

Well Fun, I haven't been able to find much in the book that helps with the poem except for 1 thing, and it helps with most of the poem. Not just WWWH, so to say that only the hints help with just WWWH is only one way to look at it. Its no big secret what I believe is the 1 thing I found troughout the book that helps with most of the poem for me and Mindy actual touched on part of it in one of her recent threads.

What I describe here is not to help with what a clue might be but rather to help understand what a "entire" clue is within the poem, so valuable information that all pertains to one clue in the poem is used to uncover or solve a "single" clue within the poem.

Heres a example, which is a clue in its entirety?

Begin it where warm waters halt

OR,

Begin it where warm waters halt
And take it in the canyon down,

OR,

Begin it where warm waters halt
And take it in the canyon down,
Not far, but too far to walk.

Depending on which searcher you ask you may get different answers but if there is something in the book that helps us understand which of the above is a clue in its "entirety" and this method can be used troughout the poem then it helps with more than just WWWH. By now you all should know I like to include a quote to help my way of thinking so here you go.

You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?
Your question reminds me of another: You leave home and walk a straight line for a mile, turn 90 degrees left and walk a curved line for a mile and shoot a bear. Then you turn 90 degrees left again and walk a straight line back to your home. What color is the bear?f

I appreciate your thoughts. I just don't think it's a big mystery as to what some of the clues are. Begin=begin. Cease probably= cease. Hint=probably means hint. Why is the word hint only found in the first stanza?

I mean, this would have f wasting valuable information on just telling us where a clue is and there's only a short supply of hints available. And I think your f quote helps solidify my position.

Pays to be a winner.
Reply
08-29-2017, 09:53 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-29-2017, 10:09 AM by The Count.)
#47
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-29-2017, 09:15 AM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-29-2017, 08:44 AM)The Count Wrote:
(08-29-2017, 07:39 AM)fundamental design Wrote: And while we're at it can you show us how a hint can help a later clue. I mean, no one yet has been able to show or tell specifically how that would work. You can describe one that you think isn't even a real hint. I'm just trying to understand the mindset of what it means for a hint to help a clue later on in the poem. Can anybody do this..:.

Cause I've already written about my hints numerous times. Some in this thread have seen and responded to my posts about that. So, the one asking me to show mine and saying I'm doing a short cut cause I can't solve the clues in the poem ought to do better research.
Wow I take a night off and this thread turns into a cluster fu...

Well Fun, I haven't been able to find much in the book that helps with the poem except for 1 thing, and it helps with most of the poem. Not just WWWH, so to say that only the hints help with just WWWH is only one way to look at it. Its no big secret what I believe is the 1 thing I found troughout the book that helps with most of the poem for me and Mindy actual touched on part of it in one of her recent threads.

What I describe here is not to help with what a clue might be but rather to help understand what a "entire" clue is within the poem, so valuable information that all pertains to one clue in the poem is used to uncover or solve a "single" clue within the poem.

Heres a example, which is a clue in its entirety?

Begin it where warm waters halt

OR,

Begin it where warm waters halt
And take it in the canyon down,

OR,

Begin it where warm waters halt
And take it in the canyon down,
Not far, but too far to walk.

Depending on which searcher you ask you may get different answers but if there is something in the book that helps us understand which of the above is a clue in its "entirety" and this method can be used troughout the poem then it helps with more than just WWWH. By now you all should know I like to include a quote to help my way of thinking so here you go.

You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?
Your question reminds me of another: You leave home and walk a straight line for a mile, turn 90 degrees left and walk a curved line for a mile and shoot a bear. Then you turn 90 degrees left again and walk a straight line back to your home. What color is the bear?f

I appreciate your thoughts. I just don't think it's a big mystery as to what some of the clues are. Begin=begin. Cease probably= cease. Hint=probably means hint. Why is the word hint only found in the first stanza?

I mean, this would have f wasting valuable information on just telling us where a clue is and there's only a short supply of hints available. And I think your f quote helps solidify my position.
That quote can be looked at in a few ways, the way you are looking at it is you need a hint from stanza 1 to solve WWWH. The way I am suggesting you need the rest of the sentence to solve WWWH. I'm less bias so I can say now either may be right, but if you want this thread to be about a hint in stanza one, just say so. This way you can start that discussion now and not wait till page 30 of this thread.

To say stanza one holds a hint and not clue, just to continue to use stanza one to help to the location of the chest with your solve, is not much different then my belief that if WWWH is clue one then that's not an entire truth or maybe a "half-truth".

It does bring up some questions like, if Fenn intended for WWWH to be where to begin why not put it in the beginning of the poem or first sentence? Or

Why use stanza structure in the poem when he could of created a poem with out them and the punctuation that clearly give it sentence structure?

I will agree "it" begins at WWWH but is "it" the chase? Probably not, the chase began for me and others before then probably when we first read the poem, now that's simple logic. Is it the starting botg path to the chest, maybe. Either way at this point we can all probably agree "it" is a location that can be found on a map. Is "it" a singular location on a map?

Call me simple but there is going to be lots of evidence for me to not believe sentence 2 is describing a river, or at lest that's one interpretation of it for me.
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Status:Lurker

_____________________

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08-29-2017, 10:13 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-29-2017, 11:00 AM by fundamental design.)
#48
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-29-2017, 09:53 AM)The Count Wrote:
(08-29-2017, 09:15 AM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-29-2017, 08:44 AM)The Count Wrote:
(08-29-2017, 07:39 AM)fundamental design Wrote: And while we're at it can you show us how a hint can help a later clue. I mean, no one yet has been able to show or tell specifically how that would work. You can describe one that you think isn't even a real hint. I'm just trying to understand the mindset of what it means for a hint to help a clue later on in the poem. Can anybody do this..:.

Cause I've already written about my hints numerous times. Some in this thread have seen and responded to my posts about that. So, the one asking me to show mine and saying I'm doing a short cut cause I can't solve the clues in the poem ought to do better research.
Wow I take a night off and this thread turns into a cluster fu...

Well Fun, I haven't been able to find much in the book that helps with the poem except for 1 thing, and it helps with most of the poem. Not just WWWH, so to say that only the hints help with just WWWH is only one way to look at it. Its no big secret what I believe is the 1 thing I found troughout the book that helps with most of the poem for me and Mindy actual touched on part of it in one of her recent threads.

What I describe here is not to help with what a clue might be but rather to help understand what a "entire" clue is within the poem, so valuable information that all pertains to one clue in the poem is used to uncover or solve a "single" clue within the poem.

Heres a example, which is a clue in its entirety?

Begin it where warm waters halt

OR,

Begin it where warm waters halt
And take it in the canyon down,

OR,

Begin it where warm waters halt
And take it in the canyon down,
Not far, but too far to walk.

Depending on which searcher you ask you may get different answers but if there is something in the book that helps us understand which of the above is a clue in its "entirety" and this method can be used troughout the poem then it helps with more than just WWWH. By now you all should know I like to include a quote to help my way of thinking so here you go.

You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?
Your question reminds me of another: You leave home and walk a straight line for a mile, turn 90 degrees left and walk a curved line for a mile and shoot a bear. Then you turn 90 degrees left again and walk a straight line back to your home. What color is the bear?f

I appreciate your thoughts. I just don't think it's a big mystery as to what some of the clues are. Begin=begin. Cease probably= cease. Hint=probably means hint. Why is the word hint only found in the first stanza?

I mean, this would have f wasting valuable information on just telling us where a clue is and there's only a short supply of hints available. And I think your f quote helps solidify my position.
That quote can be looked at in a few ways, the way you are looking at it is you need a hint from stanza 1 to solve WWWH. The way I am suggesting you need the rest of the sentence to solve WWWH. I'm less bias so I can say now either may be right, but if you want this thread to be about a hint in stanza one, just say so. This way you can start that discussion now and not wait till page 30 of this thread.

To say stanza one holds a hint and not clue, just to continue to use stanza one to help to the location of the chest with your solve, is not much different then my belief the if WWWH is clue one then that's not an entire truth or maybe a "half-truth".

It does bring up some questions like, if Fenn intended for WWWH to be where to begin why not put it in the beginning of the poem or first sentence? Or

Why use stanza structure in the poem when he could of created a poem with out them and the punctuation that clearly give it sentence structure?

I will agree "it" begins at WWWH but is "it" the chase? Probably not, the chase began for me and others before then probably when we first read the poem, now that's simple logic. Is it the starting botg path to the chest, maybe. Either way at this point we can all probably agree "it" is a location that can be found on a map. Is "it" a singular location on a map?

Call me simple but there is going to be lots of evidence for me to not believe sentence 2 is describing a river, or at lest that's one interpretation of it for me.

Good thoughts, The Count. All I'll add is no this thread isn't about forcing a stanza 1 hint on the collective. I've said that numerous times. My OP explains the purpose of the thread which is just to focus on the hints. It's fair for me to first list where I think the hints are to start additional conversations and thoughts like you just wrote. This thread is working exactly as designed.

Pays to be a winner.
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08-29-2017, 10:30 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-29-2017, 10:34 AM by pidmt.)
#49
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-29-2017, 09:56 AM)LuckyLove Wrote:
(08-29-2017, 07:39 AM)fundamental design Wrote: I don't agree with how you boiled everything down to it having to be multiple clues that hints help with just because f said clues plural. My claim still stands. If all the hints help solve the correct wwwh then they can still be considered to help with the clues. That's because they got you on the correct clue path. Simple!

And while we're at it can you show us how a hint can help a later clue. I mean, no one yet has been able to show or tell specifically how that would work. You can describe one that you think isn't even a real hint. I'm just trying to understand the mindset of what it means for a hint to help a clue later on in the poem. Can anybody do this..:.

Ok, we'll start with the quote:

Forrest Fenn, Treasurer Hider, Author, Gallery Owner and Santa Fe Legend
By The Richard Eeds Show - May 29, 2015
https://santafe.com/podcasts/forrest-fen...-fe-legend

".......There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues." (<----plural, no that it matters at this point) "But, a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues. If you can understand that."

From that we can gather that a clue will point you toward the treasure. So, without expending any brain power and to keep it as simple as possible let's hypothetically go straight to the treasure and demonstrate how hints could help with the clue that points directly toward treasure.

The hypothetical exact place according to the poem:
So hear me all and listen good,
(How could that hypothetically point directly to the treasure? It's not a place in a formal straightforward sense so it can't be a clue. It can be in a hypothetically metaphorical sense though.)

The hypothetical hints outside of the poem:
An autobiographer always leans toward the subject. (leaner)
Close only counts in hand grenades. (what about horseshoes?)
I remember my fathers school bell being used to help with the war effort. (ringer)
I know how to measure a horseshoe because a blacksmith friend of mine told me how.

None of the above hypothetical hints could possibly point anyone toward the treasure. Therefore, they couldn't be clues. But, if we choose to perceive those as hints they can help with the clues and provide ideas or confirmation of how we hypothetically paint the final picture that would hypothetically point us directly to the treasure: https://goo.gl/q6EGuh

If you need help, "So hear me all," would be the ringer and "listen good," would be the leaner and you can't have either without a stake in the ground.

The hints could help with only the first clue as you suggest. They could also help with only the last clue or any clue or combination between the two without ever helping with wwwh leaving us to figure that out for ourselves. Once again I'm not saying there isn't a hint(s) that help with wwwh only that, as far as I know, it's not a guarantee. Only Fenn knows for sure.
Lucky while i enjoy your post ,i have to disagree with one thing in this post,so hear me all and listen good is not fenn saying those words,remember fenn said it was written by an architect ,fenn is not one he points directly to this when he said when my wife built our house page 6 ttotc sounds to me like he didnt have a say in the matter,so hear me all and listen good is him quoting a 2nd party imo of course ,and it also fits my solve,im not trying to stir the pot just sharing my thoughts,those words when my wife built our house is a hard hint at something
******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
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08-29-2017, 10:34 AM,
#50
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-29-2017, 09:53 AM)The Count Wrote: It does bring up some questions like, if Fenn intended for WWWH to be where to begin why not put it in the beginning of the poem or first sentence? Or

EXACTLY, and why after you take the chest and go in peace is followed by two more stanzas?
Obtaining the chest means that it is over. You found it. So why add more hints?
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