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THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
09-14-2019, 06:16 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-14-2019, 06:32 PM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
I think it’s important to shine a light on a post when one finds that an assumption has been made which results in jumping to a conclusion that is misguided. Here’s the latest...

I will first post a part of the original post that this other post referenced (I posted and talked about the original post ystdy so I’ll just give the beginning of the long scenario)-

Searcher A : Let's go searching in the Rocky Mountains for Forrest Fenn's treasure.
Searcher B : Okay, where at in the Rocky Mountains do we search for it ?
A : Well, we Begin it where warm waters halt.
B : And where is that ?
A : Well, it's where the warm waters halt.
B : Okay, but how do we know where that is ?
A : Well, we look for warm waters and figure out where they halt.
B : But what is it that we're looking for ?
A : I already told you, we're looking for warm waters.
B : But, what is warm waters ?
————————————————

And this is the other’s response-


All,

This entire write up may be derived from one who has the mindset of an oversimplified clue, that being that the entire first clue is just: "begin it where warm waters halt"

If that is indeed the case then one will be focused on trying to determine what warm waters halt is, because to that individual it will be imperative to figuring what warm waters halt is so that they can then identify all of them within the entirety of the Rocky Mountains, then go looking for a canyon and a brown, which I'm sure they will find many coincidences based upon that belief. This is, in my opinion, what most, if not all, searchers have been doing for nearly 10 years.

But, I am a nine sentences are the nine clues believer, thus the first clue is a complete sentence, so there are more words or ingredients to that first clue then just that single line. And along that same line of thinking, there are 8 more sentences to go, which may encompass the big picture. entire first clue is just: "begin it where warm waters halt"
——————————————————————
The assumption- If that is indeed the case then one will be focused on trying to determine what warm waters halt is, because to that individual it will be imperative to figuring what warm waters halt is so that they can then identify all of them within the entirety of the Rocky Mountains, then go looking for a canyon and a brown, which I'm sure they will find many coincidences based upon that belief. This is, in my opinion, what most, if not all, searchers have been doing for nearly 10 years.
——————————————————————
This is not how all searchers, who take f’s quote that BIWWWH is the first clue, proceed. There is no such restriction on how one goes about trying to determine the correct where warm waters halt clue when one believes the BIWWWH line is the first clue. It isn’t required that one then try to determine “what” warm waters halt is. This is ridiculous.

Pretty sure I’ve posted plenty of times on this thread a reasonable alternative approach for searchers that fit this initial scenario of not thinking ‘what’ wwwh is important to figure out first and how they can find the missing ingredients that can possibly help determine the correct wwwh. They can look in the first stanza for a possible hint that points to the correct wwwh. Is this searcher (poem purist) so scared of hints that he can’t say the word hint or think that a hint is a reasonable building block in the design of the treasure path? It makes for a more reasonable explanation for why BIWWWH is the first clue, like f said, instead of the 9 sentences are the nine clues method. I’d say that method has a fatal flaw in it and what I just explained outlines that.

I think my post highlights the confirmation bias of the searcher who posted the assumption.

Pays to be a winner.
Reply
09-15-2019, 06:52 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-15-2019, 07:32 AM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Imo, another inaccurate accounting of a supposed f quote by a poem purist (Seannm)...

“I believe he has said, in many different ways, that one could find the treasure with just the clues”....

At least I don’t remember f saying what the above means. I would love the source quote for this claim. Lots of shoddy work going on out there without others holding others accountable for their mistaken beliefs about f quotes. Pretty easy to figure out if the belief is correct or not if you provide a link that backs it up. Silliness. I will add that at least one (Rooster Cogburn) is asking for a citation/link from silly Kpro about a Facebook page post she talked about. It involves a supposed f quote that another searcher brought up- Douglas Preston thinking the first version of the poem was too easy and would be solved quickly. But, the group over their missed requesting for a citation/ink to Kpro’s other post where she said that f saw a lawyer (I guess about the Chase) after hiding the tc.

Anyway, f has said one can find the treasure with “just the poem”...not “just the clues”. It’s a big difference.

Tarry Scant #9152 3/17/2013 KOB Eye on New Mexico

BRADY: So you could do it with just the poem?

SCHWARTZ: Just the poem. Right, you could do it with just the poem, but the book is kind of helpful.

F said in the same interview “They’re gonna have to figure out the clues in the poem that’ll take them right straight to it.” But, that statement doesn’t restrict one to only figuring out the clues. There is no use of the absolute word of “just”.

It’s reasonable, or logical, that a hint in the poem needs to be figured out first before the first clue.

Pays to be a winner.
Reply
09-15-2019, 12:35 PM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(09-15-2019, 06:52 AM)fundamental design Wrote: Imo, another inaccurate accounting of a supposed f quote by a poem purist (Seannm)...

“I believe he has said, in many different ways, that one could find the treasure with just the clues”....

At least I don’t remember f saying what the above means. I would love the source quote for this claim. Lots of shoddy work going on out there without others holding others accountable for their mistaken beliefs about f quotes. Pretty easy to figure out if the belief is correct or not if you provide a link that backs it up. Silliness. I will add that at least one (Rooster Cogburn) is asking for a citation/link from silly Kpro about a Facebook page post she talked about. It involves a supposed f quote that another searcher brought up- Douglas Preston thinking the first version of the poem was too easy and would be solved quickly. But, the group over their missed requesting for a citation/ink to Kpro’s other post where she said that f saw a lawyer (I guess about the Chase) after hiding the tc.

Anyway, f has said one can find the treasure with “just the poem”...not “just the clues”. It’s a big difference.

Tarry Scant #9152 3/17/2013 KOB Eye on New Mexico

BRADY: So you could do it with just the poem?

SCHWARTZ: Just the poem. Right, you could do it with just the poem, but the book is kind of helpful.

F said in the same interview “They’re gonna have to figure out the clues in the poem that’ll take them right straight to it.” But, that statement doesn’t restrict one to only figuring out the clues. There is no use of the absolute word of “just”.

It’s reasonable, or logical, that a hint in the poem needs to be figured out first before the first clue.

I remember hearing both something about Forrest seeing a lawyer and the thing about Preston saying it was too easy. I don't know when or where those were said, but I'm pretty sure a person could find both references if they wanted to. The CC search tool would likely turn something up if someone had the tenacity to wade through all the jabber.
Reply
09-15-2019, 03:27 PM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(09-15-2019, 12:35 PM)John Brown Wrote:
(09-15-2019, 06:52 AM)fundamental design Wrote: Imo, another inaccurate accounting of a supposed f quote by a poem purist (Seannm)...

“I believe he has said, in many different ways, that one could find the treasure with just the clues”....

At least I don’t remember f saying what the above means. I would love the source quote for this claim. Lots of shoddy work going on out there without others holding others accountable for their mistaken beliefs about f quotes. Pretty easy to figure out if the belief is correct or not if you provide a link that backs it up. Silliness. I will add that at least one (Rooster Cogburn) is asking for a citation/link from silly Kpro about a Facebook page post she talked about. It involves a supposed f quote that another searcher brought up- Douglas Preston thinking the first version of the poem was too easy and would be solved quickly. But, the group over their missed requesting for a citation/ink to Kpro’s other post where she said that f saw a lawyer (I guess about the Chase) after hiding the tc.

Anyway, f has said one can find the treasure with “just the poem”...not “just the clues”. It’s a big difference.

Tarry Scant #9152 3/17/2013 KOB Eye on New Mexico

BRADY: So you could do it with just the poem?

SCHWARTZ: Just the poem. Right, you could do it with just the poem, but the book is kind of helpful.

F said in the same interview “They’re gonna have to figure out the clues in the poem that’ll take them right straight to it.” But, that statement doesn’t restrict one to only figuring out the clues. There is no use of the absolute word of “just”.

It’s reasonable, or logical, that a hint in the poem needs to be figured out first before the first clue.

I remember hearing both something about Forrest seeing a lawyer and the thing about Preston saying it was too easy. I don't know when or where those were said, but I'm pretty sure a person could find both references if they wanted to. The CC search tool would likely turn something up if someone had the tenacity to wade through all the jabber.

Yeah, saw a lawyer, but did he do do that both before and after he hid the tc. Two points- first, it really doesn’t matter about seeing a lawyer as it doesn’t really help anything- it’s another non content work around from actual poem/book content.

Second, people need to cite their source for claims of fact like this. That’s how Kpro got her first time out ban here on CC against you (John Brown) for not being able to back up her claim of fact.

Pays to be a winner.
Reply
09-18-2019, 08:49 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-19-2019, 05:47 AM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
All,

Here is another good one:

“Does somebody need to read your books to find the treasure or do all the clues exist within the poem?”

“They don’t need to read my book, but they do need to read the poem. The book will help them, but they can find the treasure if they can decipher the clues that are in the poem. “ f

No mention from Forrest about hints being needed and or vital. As well as no mention that one needs to decipher any hints in the poem, just the clues in order to find the treasure.
————————————————-
So, you are gonna just figure out the first clue BIWWWH with just that clue in the poem (and a good map)? Good luck with that approach. Yes, I know what a part of your answer will be and it’s still shabby. Again, f has said BIWWWH is the first clue and we got the following f quote...

Dear Forrest,

You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:

a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and

b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? Steve

No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

————————————-
It’s with the above f quote I posted that makes the f quote Seannm posted above about deciphering just the clues not the full picture, imo. It’s been my focus on this thread to show a reasonable approach that doesn’t conflict with the difficult problem in the f quote above that I posted. That’s because you got to find a way to decipher the first clue. You can’t do that with “just” the first clue like how f responded and remember the clues are consecutive and we know what the first clue is, Sean.

I don’t think a proper map is the only missing ingredient that’s crucial or the following clues. Saying “they can find the treasure if they can decipher the clues that are in the poem” doesn’t mean you can only use the clues to decipher the clues. Same thing with “You can find the chest with just the clues”. That means to use “just the clues” you had to have deciphered them and that’s where my point has always come from. The string of deciphering doesn’t start with the first clue. Something precedes the first clue and it is necessary to figure it out, imo. Silly, Sean...it’s like you aren’t even trying.

The focus of this thread is why I think this is the best thread or discussion in the Chase. What f isn’t saying in Sean’s quote of f is what other info in the poem and/or tools (for example a map) is necessary to decipher that important first clue. Some of us don’t need to be held by the hand by f to think of a reasonable approach. I think the answer is the first stanza which is a hint and a good map. Is there any decent meanings of the word “hint” which is present in the first stanza that can help us and not mean what the word hint typically does?.......


2/25/2017 - "You sure ask confounding, but insightful questions. The clues are in the poem, but there are hints in the book."

Interesting that f doesn’t say above that “the” hints are in the book which would indicate that the hints are only found in the book. But, of course he said “the” clues. And yes, Sean, I know f has said “the hints in my book” in other quotes but that is when he has specifically talked about “the hints in my book”. So, no need to show those quotes since you struggle to comprehend the scope of them.
—————————————————-
Not sure why doing my homework needs to consist of citing sources for your f quotes. That was my point.

And let MDavis know that his comments about my thread here have always been short on substance. His spin job rhetoric about this thread are nearly adding up to to the more than 200,000 views of this thread except his comments don’t include any compelling Chase content. That’s how MDavis has positioned himself. Funny how he’s always barking out orders to others to ignore me and this thread but he doesn’t. My math tells me that it doesn’t sound like not many read this thread. Lol

Pays to be a winner.
Reply
09-18-2019, 10:07 PM,
THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Forrest said "You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm water halt."

The"beginning" is not the "begin it".
You may start there physically at some point in time.. but the "figuring" begins somewhere else. The first stanza.


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09-19-2019, 01:31 AM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
It is a fallacy to think that high view counts mean anything regarding this thread. Any given post will trigger 50 views currently, whereas it used to be 100 views or more on average. So if the OP posts in his own thread 1,000 times, it would trigger as many as 100,000 views. But posting 1,000 times is not even necessary. Each post by the OP will usually trigger at least a couple of responses, which in turn trigger another 100 to 200 views. So the OP only has to post maybe 300 times in his own thread to trigger 100,000 views (based on historic viewership -- the lower number of current viewers would require more).

So if the OP is particularly verbose, and extremely repetitive in his or her posts, a high view count can be achieved.

So I ask once again, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Alternatively, "brevity is the soul of wit.":

William Shakespeare coined this phrase in the play Hamlet, written in 1602. In the play, Lord Polonius makes a speech in which he calls Hamlet mad, or crazy. In the speech, Lord Polonius states,
“This business is well ended.
My liege, and madam, to expostulate
What majesty should be, what duty is,
Why day is day, night night, and time is time,
Were nothing but to waste night, day and time.
Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
I will be brief: your noble son is mad:
Mad call I it; for, to define true madness,
What is’t but to be nothing else but mad?
But let that go.”

OK, the hints in the book (excluding what's in the poem) may be vital to success, but they are not absolutely necessary. The hints in the poem probably are vital to success.

I agree that there are hints in the poem, as well as hints elsewhere in the book.

Unless there is some good reason to continue this thread, I am ready to lock it down, so people can move on and not waste further time on this issue.
Reply
09-19-2019, 06:20 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-19-2019, 09:46 AM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(09-19-2019, 01:31 AM)Beavertooth Wrote: It is a fallacy to think that high view counts mean anything regarding this thread. Any given post will trigger 50 views currently, whereas it used to be 100 views or more on average. So if the OP posts in his own thread 1,000 times, it would trigger as many as 100,000 views. But posting 1,000 times is not even necessary. Each post by the OP will usually trigger at least a couple of responses, which in turn trigger another 100 to 200 views. So the OP only has to post maybe 300 times in his own thread to trigger 100,000 views (based on historic viewership -- the lower number of current viewers would require more).

So if the OP is particularly verbose, and extremely repetitive in his or her posts, a high view count can be achieved.

So I ask once again, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Alternatively, "brevity is the soul of wit.":

William Shakespeare coined this phrase in the play Hamlet, written in 1602. In the play, Lord Polonius makes a speech in which he calls Hamlet mad, or crazy. In the speech, Lord Polonius states,
“This business is well ended.
My liege, and madam, to expostulate
What majesty should be, what duty is,
Why day is day, night night, and time is time,
Were nothing but to waste night, day and time.
Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
I will be brief: your noble son is mad:
Mad call I it; for, to define true madness,
What is’t but to be nothing else but mad?
But let that go.”

OK, the hints in the book (excluding what's in the poem) may be vital to success, but they are not absolutely necessary. The hints in the poem probably are vital to success.

I agree that there are hints in the poem, as well as hints elsewhere in the book.

Unless there is some good reason to continue this thread, I am ready to lock it down, so people can move on and not waste further time on this issue.

I think you’re wrong on most counts. Saying it’s a fallacy that high view counts mean anything regarding this thread is a fallacy. Spinjob MDavis has repeatedly said that no one reads this thread anymore and that’s what I was talking about. My numbers and your numbers tell a different story. It might not say what you think it says but you didn’t take the problem from the direction that I hinted at. I would say beware of using absolutes.

Also, just because I focus a thread on the most important aspect of deciphering the clues (the first clue) doesn’t mean my thread doesn’t add value in most of the posts that are added. There’s usually a different angle or analysis in posts I add than previous ones. I often bring others thoughts on this part of the puzzle to this thread and say why I agree or disagree with their thoughts. Of course, others bring their new ideas to post too or build a community about focusing on the first clue puzzle or add that they don’t think any hints will help. Then, we can discuss further. Being focused on a part of the clue path is different than being extremely repetitive.

How could people be wasting their time on this issue when it’s the first issue to tackle and most important issue to tackle in the Chase? This thread is not just about saying the hints are vital to success. That would be a naive viewpoint. This thread is about exploring how the hints are vital to success, how to coax them out and what could a hint be...real examples. It’s about taking a deep dive into what the hints could be and possibly know there’s a method to finding them (sorry Chris Yates).

The other important part of this thread’s message is can you focus on just that part of the puzzle even if there are other conversations going on like canyon down, no place for the meek, worth the cold, in the wood, lawyer talk, FOIA, searcher coins..etc?

What..are you gonna lock down the Codes and Cyphers thread because we know codes and ciphers aren’t (in this case) needed in the Chase and just reduce that thread to a naive “extremely repetitive” posts situation? Even though they are attempting to just use puzzle pieces they think will help them. If handling puzzle pieces in a treasure hunt, like the Chase, is called “extremely repetitive” than what are you or we doing here?

“Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”

Don’t read the thread if you think it’ll wast your time. That’s an easy solution. Others seem to get a thread of their own to act like a journal to their thoughts. At least mine is on point to the vital first hurdle that needs to be leaped over and isn’t a bunch of random thoughts.

Pays to be a winner.
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09-19-2019, 08:11 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-19-2019, 09:25 AM by Beavertooth.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Napoleon was right.
Reply
09-19-2019, 09:05 AM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(09-19-2019, 08:16 AM)crazyfamily Wrote: Voltaire was right. Napoleon was a well read commander. That’s important, but not commonly practiced these days in America.

If I said Voltaire was right, no one except yourself would have known what I was talking about. I try to focus on what is important.
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