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Try the wheel - Samsmith - Our spot
06-28-2020, 11:41 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-28-2020, 11:58 AM by WyMustIGo.)
#1
Wink  Try the wheel - Samsmith - Our spot
I have seen people discuss 8+ years and everyone assumed WWWH was related to water, that statement is not true. A long time ago a man on ChaseChat (and Dals) called SamSmith (also as Timebandit) discussed many times that his WWWH had no water. He did this since about 2013. He later revealed that his prime and only starting point was "The Bighorn Medicine Wheel". He discussed that he used a word that is key (and within stanza one) to reveal a message hidden in the poem. Nobody believed Sam. Most laughed at him...

In 2016 Sam and I partnered up because I did believe in him. I arrived at the exact same conclusion, BUT I did not use the "Sliding Trick" in TTOTC. I treated the poem as a map and I drew lines on the poem, as instructed by the poem itself. We know there are multiple layers, and until you determine what the clues mean in the first pass, you cannot locate the exact WWWH because the hidden message makes it precise and not vague.

In 2017 Sam and I parted ways because I determined there was more than one key, he disagreed. I created a post on Jenny's that I captured here in a video back in 2018:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EsaTFtadcM

The keys I used in that video were wrong and partially incomplete. But It was the right track as far as my opinion went.

Over the next few years and being banned on Dals (for messing with the poem), on THOR (arguing with some crazy ROLLTIDE), and even on Jenny's I made a YouTube Channel and did my own thing. I did a TON of research on the poem and also figured out a way to get to the hints using the POEM on the book:
https://www.youtube.com/c/wymustigo

In FEB 2020 Sam joined us again (now it was Sam, +A WY resident, +Me) and we agreed to end the chase at the wheel. We put ALL our bets on it, and finished it. We went BOTG many times at the wheel before being able to pick up the ending clues (CLUE 9 seen only BOTG). We went BOTG the week of June 6, 2020. We did NOT find the chest, the announcement was made, but we think it was a toe to toe race with a man named Robert Y. (not you, a different Robert). After our failure, I think I now know where it was, but its pointless for us to bother since its found AND FF showed a picture. But if you are curious...

Final Location: 5 Springs Campground at end of trail to Upper Falls. WWWH (the real one) is 5 springs basin. Canyon is 5 springs canyon. When at the wheel you stand at the [E] Cairn and look past the CENTER cairn (O). This is the solstice SUNRISE - Mountain Man Logic. But we subtract 32 (freezing) from 212 (boiling), the result is 180 degrees/mirror. So instead of looking AT the sun, we do an about face put the sun BEHIND us, so now we are at [O] Looking towards [E] - sun at our back. NOTE: We are standing on the 22nd SPOKE if you count CLOCKWISE at the wheel. You MUST go clockwise, the natives walk SUNWISE only, and there is a sign on the wheel entrance telling you to WALK LEFT! (SUN/CLOCK wise)

At that point you are ABOVE (AS above... heavens above... using the stars): Taurus EYE, Orion's TOE, Canis Major (big dog), The Southern Fish + Aquarius (the water bearer) - the celestial RIVER which is spilling its water into the 5 springs basin seen when sitting at [F] cairn looking to [D] (Forrest prayed for D's).

When you are in the last two stanzas, you are BELOW (So Below.. on Earth.. using the cairn radials with the clues to determine the spoke to look down (it is SPOKE 22, which is 242 (2-4-2 walk) degreess of TRUE NORTH. It crosses right over the upper falls EXACTLY on the national forest border!

The PUT IN below Medicine Mountain is Row 4, Block 23 - The wheel parking LOT!

On the way up to the wheel, you become WISE at 5 Springs Basin overlook. You will see 3 names on a bench:
Charles Brady, Francis Brown, Hamal Wise

BTW, what does Tarry Scant mean? It means a SHORT STAY. Like "Sit a spell, take your shoes off, yoall come back now hear?". So wouldn't TARRY SCANT WITH MARVEL GAZE be exactly what you would do when RESTING your tired bones on the bench as you GAZE at the horizon / basin? Now look quickly down (the cliff), you are sitting directly ABOVE the 5 Springs headwaters BELOW. You are sitting at the HOME OF BROWN. Brownskins, 28 tribes! Indians consider the wheel a place of origin. Redskin is a WHITE MAN term for Indians... Francis BROWN was the leader who created the group that SAVED the wheel from the LUMBERJACKS.

Anyway, check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt66Tc6m6Ic

Peace

PS: I do not want to give out the exact details for the ending other than to say that the bulk of the message in the poem is: "try the wheel wy mt treasure end chest at eye" - Also, notice that the letters we used to spell "treasure" was "RE-A-SURE"... Sounds like "Reassure" eh? Re-Assure means to give confidence Smile

Stephanie,

Sam and I believe that you were the one who was here at the wheel. You were with Dal (we think) and you guys hid a geocache nearby. We think you arrived at the wheel (like many did after you) but nodody realized or solved the entire poem. So it was an abarration (sp?)...

I am very annoyed at myself for thinking about the details of 5 Springs when it was too late. My question for you is, did you ever go to 5 springs camp? Everyone's been to Bucking Mule and Porcupine, also Elk Spring Creek. But how many took OLD 14A up to where the pavement ends and then go into the upper falls?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/44%C2%...107.970375

https://i.gyazo.com/5bbb45e967f4e079881c...359c54.jpg

https://i.gyazo.com/371031e28ceade72d3f5...eeff96.jpg
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06-28-2020, 12:11 PM,
#2
RE: Try the wheel - Samsmith - Our spot
Sam was so right. He was a genius.

You were so very close. Why not use the spoke that dictated an event that affected how waters became warm or cool? The Sunset. It's the spoke just next to one that resembles an upside down U (which coincidentally is also an Omega). https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/bb63/2f...dcedb2.pdf.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10UIAjVn...sp=sharing

I wonder why you think his name was Robert Y? I emailed him as two different people with the first name of Robert. That's interesting.
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06-28-2020, 01:39 PM,
#3
RE: Try the wheel - Samsmith - Our spot
I partnered with Mike Cowlazars on the Medicine Wheel. He brought the solve...not me. I just was willing to search it. I never went to that camp. Forrest told me it wasn't there by making some type of comment. Something like he thought medicine wheels were phony. Also, I have to confess.....those plaques on the benches were switched at one time.
© Stephanie
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06-28-2020, 01:58 PM,
#4
RE: Try the wheel - Samsmith - Our spot
(06-28-2020, 01:50 PM)WyMustIGo Wrote:
(06-28-2020, 01:39 PM)admin Wrote: I partnered with Mike Cowlazars on the Medicine Wheel. He brought the solve...not me. I just was willing to search it. I never went to that camp. Forrest told me it wasn't there by making some type of comment. Something like he thought medicine wheels were phony. Also, I have to confess.....those plaques on the benches were switched at one time.

Yep, they were. But the important thing is that those names are forever recorded in history. Like the wheel, it will be historically remembered for thousands of years.

Sam hates cow because Cow at first did not give Sam credit, and honestly cow never solved anything with the wheel. He's corrected that, but even as recently as 12/2019 he told me he gave up on the wheel years ago. Then I guess he and kpro got lost trying to dip toes. LOL

BTW, this is all tied to Wheeler's peak and Taos too, through Francis Brown. The wheel coalition was formed in Taos.

I always wondered why Forrest talks about Sloane so much, and yet he wrote two books on Sharp, purchased the Sharp estate, and cabin. He donated 10 linear feet of shelf space in Cody to Sharp, and even though Sharp spent summers in NM, Forrest dedicated nothing from Sharp there.

IMO, Forrest setup shot in NM only because if he started a gallery in WY it would have failed. The rich hang around Santa Fe to buy art, not WY. Plus I believe Peggy wanted no part of WY being stuck inside 1/2 a year, hehe. I understand she was a pottery teacher? She probably wanted it, and FF went for it knowing he could still fly to WY/MT. I guess you can say I think his WALLET is in NM, but his heart is in WY/MT.

Then, I could also be 100% wrong! LOL

Who knows, I do hope we find out more info. I want to know if I was totally wrong!

I still have no doubt that wherever it was, YOU were the 200 footer. Nobody searched like you did. You probably know the Rockies better than FF now! hehe

He did say something to me when I was searching there.... something about a medicine wheel in NM. Like some guy made a phony medicine wheel in NM. I'm going from memory on this...so don't take this as accurate. I did tell Mike whatever it was Forrest said and I could go back in email....but I have thousands.
© Stephanie
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06-28-2020, 02:07 PM,
#5
RE: Try the wheel - Samsmith - Our spot
(06-28-2020, 01:58 PM)admin Wrote: He did say something to me when I was searching there.... something about a medicine wheel in NM. Like some guy made a phony medicine wheel in NM. I'm going from memory on this...so don't take this as accurate. I did tell Mike whatever it was Forrest said and I could go back in email....but I have thousands.


Its all good, no need to research it.

BTW, thanks for allowing me to post here.
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06-28-2020, 02:10 PM,
#6
RE: Try the wheel - Samsmith - Our spot
Excellent place. We stayed in a van 6 weeks between 5 Springs, the gate at the top of 14a (to open, still 4' of snow), and eventually got to go many miles up 11 to Sheep Mtn. My solve at the time. We found out about the Medicine Wheel once there. The High Country Lodge people called us "legends around here" once they saw us, a second time, rescuing people before they got to em.
Reply
06-28-2020, 02:22 PM,
#7
RE: Try the wheel - Samsmith - Our spot
(06-28-2020, 02:07 PM)WyMustIGo Wrote:
(06-28-2020, 01:58 PM)admin Wrote: He did say something to me when I was searching there.... something about a medicine wheel in NM. Like some guy made a phony medicine wheel in NM. I'm going from memory on this...so don't take this as accurate. I did tell Mike whatever it was Forrest said and I could go back in email....but I have thousands.


Its all good, no need to research it.

BTW, thanks for allowing me to post here.

Always....


Funny but I forgot about the cache I put there. It disappeared....wonder why.
© Stephanie
Reply
06-28-2020, 03:53 PM,
#8
RE: Try the wheel - Samsmith - Our spot
Thanks so much for posting this thread!

I also admired Samsmith's posts in the past. And was intrigued by the Medicine Wheel. Never researched it, however, because I knew serious searchers were there before me.

What a pleasure to read this.

Smile
Reply
06-28-2020, 05:28 PM,
#9
RE: Try the wheel - Samsmith - Our spot
(06-28-2020, 12:43 PM)WyMustIGo Wrote:
(06-28-2020, 12:11 PM)BKCALIEast Wrote: Sam was so right. He was a genius.

You were so very close. Why not use the spoke that dictated an event that affected how waters became warm or cool? The Sunset. It's the spoke just next to one that resembles an upside down U (which coincidentally is also an Omega). https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/bb63/2f...dcedb2.pdf.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10UIAjVn...sp=sharing

I wonder why you think his name was Robert Y? I emailed him as two different people with the first name of Robert. That's interesting.

I have Robert's permission to reveal his name, but I chose not to. Robert Y used a tanget line at the wheel and it placed him at Porcupine Springs.

He gave me a hint and laughed while saying (we were on the phone) he will tell me the details later, but for now I can figure it out. I did figure it out on 6/15 the day before Robert was heading to WY to "wrap things up". It is at 5 springs! My partner and I talked, my partner said "Troy, I can go to the spot before he does and get it, IF that is where he is going". I replied NO, he was kind enough to tell me what he did, he solved it, I didn't get the ending, he desrves it. I won't steal it out from under an honest person. My partner said it was honorable, and in return he told me that he would help Rob out, we have equipment, we have arms (Smith & Wesson, etc al). But Rob didn't want to risk it and it did not happen. Next day Rob arrived in WY, called me, then later that night the pictures were released. I called Rob and he told me he never went out on Tuesday, he was tired and it was raining. He did tell me that his spot was not at 5 springs, but near Porcupine. So Me, Rob, Sam, and my partner all assumed we were wrong and perhaps, if we are right, it was toe to toe and someone else got there.

I still believe that it was above the upper falls, in a nook carved in the canyon wall with a sheep eater petroglyph of an EYE above it.

When you park at the UPPER 5 Springs camp, there is a trail to the falls. Its only 1/2 a mile and the grade change is a mere 136 feet over 1/2 mile. VERY easy. 1/2 way up the trail is a sign (paraphrased) "From this point on the trail is not maintained, you assume your own risk. Beware of Falling Rocks. Falls ahead". At the end of the trail, you can climb up to the top of the falls and there is somewhat of a flat area, the creek then continues to a much larger falls. That flat area is tight, one way in, and at 7,240 feet it was a perfect area for Sheep Eaters to stay over the winter, have access to water, and be beneath the lush trees and tucked into the wall. Directly above you is the wheel, the HOB, and you are below the celestial river (Fomalhaut - southern fish - pices - aquarius). As above, so below.

I would bet money on this spot.

I am VERY curious if Stephanie ever went to this camp! For some reason, EVERYONE avoids it and walks right past the headwaters.

So the WATER at WWWH is in the CELESTIAL RIVER - can't paddle to it - its in the imagination! AS ABOVE
The real WWWH you can dip toes in is below it at 5 springs creek headwaterss in the 5 springs basin directly below the HOB.

Its pointless now because even if we went there, the chest is gone. Hindsight is 20/20. But this solve (mine) if we could all the hours, from ME+WY partner+Sam+Robert is around 20 MAN YEARS. Tons of on location BOTG to figure it all out, and you can only see the ground June - Sept, the roads up are blocked from Oct to May 20-30 Sad

I sent FF an email with my solve, maps, etc. I told him I asked my partner to surprise me for my anniversary. FF never responds to my solve emails, but I know he reads them. The last time he ever replied was in OCT 2019 when I did him a favor for SB 207 (I did two videos about this). So I know I am not the "finder" because we did communicate in 2019 which was after 2018 of course.

I am sad that: I wanted to meet the man, I never even went to a fennbore and now maybe he doesn't like me? Then, I may never know if I was close. LOL. I would be HAPPY if I was close and failed, its MUCH better than me being off by 600 miles! I do hope they at least say the state, but who knows.

(06-28-2020, 12:11 PM)BKCALIEast Wrote: Sam was so right. He was a genius.

You were so very close. Why not use the spoke that dictated an event that affected how waters became warm or cool? The Sunset. It's the spoke just next to one that resembles an upside down U (which coincidentally is also an Omega). https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/bb63/2f...dcedb2.pdf.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10UIAjVn...sp=sharing

I wonder why you think his name was Robert Y? I emailed him as two different people with the first name of Robert. That's interesting.

BTW, you do realize your name "Robert Kresco" is on the details of that file share you are linking?

For those who don't know, the following can be discovered on site through the brochures, kiosks, and even the rangers themselves when at the wheel.

The natives would use the wheel for various reasons such as Vision Quests and healing. It was used to observe the "canopy of stars" during the summer from Solstice Sunrise/Sunset and through out the summer. The 28 spoke wheel (80 ft in Diameter) is has 5 cairns outside it A,B,C,D,E (shaped like horse shoes/omegas), one inside (F), and a center cairn (O). They are used as follows:

Stand at E and look to O on solstice sunrise (6/20 this year) for sunrise.
Stand at C and look to O on solstice sunset (6/20) for sunset.

NOTE: When you enter the wheel, a sign says "WALK LEFT". This is SUN-WISE, the Natives believe you must walk with the SUN, if you walk COUNTER clockwise you upset the spirits! So we are drawing left/nigh...

If you SIT (put in) at (F) and observe A - D:
F-A = Aldebaran = (Taurus-The Bull Firey eye); the follower. Rises 2 days before solstice!
F-B = Rigel = (Orion-The Hunter's TOE/FOOT). Rises 28 days AFTER solstice
F-C = Sirius = (Canis Major-The Greater Dog Star; Orions Dog). Rises 28 days AFTER Rigel
F-D = Fomalhaut = (Piscis Austrinus-Southern Fish): Lonliest Star, mouth of the southern fish, used for navigation. End of the water stream of Aquarius since Fomalhaut is right below Aquarius and at end of its water stream from the urn of water. Rises 28 days BEFORE solstice

Basically you can divide the sky into sections. The SOUTH WEST is water themed in astrology/mythology. For example, in Egypt Fomalhaut rising meant the Nile will Flood, to the Indians it means raining season. The SOUTH EAST is themed sort of like no place for the meek. Orion is HUNTING Taurus while his two dogs are chasing a HARE and UNICORN/RAINBOW. Orions TOE is teetering on the river Eridanus while the HARE and one dog run to it.

When reading the hidden message "try the wheel wy mt treasure end chest at eye", when we read "the END is ever drawing nigh, notice the word END vertical is "EN D", so read it as the E & D is ever drawing nigh, kinda like PB&J = Peanut Butter and Jelly. Forrest prayed for D's, the indians prayed for the D cairn (Fomalhaut).

While sitting at F, take note that the HORIZON is chopped off ecause the elevation of F is lower than D, and everything up there beyond D to the south before the cliff. So it would look like Aquarius is dropping the urn of water past Fomalhaut (fish mouth) and into the 5 springs basin.

You've BEEN wise twice:
1) When you passed the 5 springs overlook and "Hamal Wise"
2) When you walked SUN-WISE around the wheel to sit in F and observe.

The SUN (a blaze) is observed rising when standing at E to WARM the day. We invert it and place our back to the sun, we are facing 242 degrees and walking on the 22nd spoke (22 bracelet gems). Not far, but 242 walk. BUT we can't walk, we would die falling off the huge 1500 foot cliffs at the wheel and overlook. So we must LEAVE and put in below, following the creek up to the falls. etc...

NOTE: When the poem is shifted (all lines below HOB), you will notice that the word "treasure" becomes the EDGE of a cliff. The words on the LEFT that remain below the HOB describe what is below, the words that you pushed into the canyon describe what is in the sky. If you trace a line through it, it almost looks like you are on top of a mountain, you take it DOWN below the HOB, then you head west a bit and drop off again (take the CHEST and GO IN PEACE" means to spell out CHEST downward from the C in peace). So the chest is literally falling DOWN at the falls.

Now I can't prove any of this, but there is nobody who can convince me that this is all just one big coincidence!

Bottom line: When reading the poem layer one to decode the clues, you treat the poem words such that they are MODIFYING/SLIDING the lines to spell out key words, and when done it reveals the messages AND confirms it. Once you are done, you read the poem again but this time use it to locate the PHYSICAL WWWH (5 springs basin), Canyon, etc. The poem not only takes you directly to it, but it also tells you what to see!

Remember this: When reading the poem, each grid cell is a STEP. Each click of the wheel is a STEP. How many steps should you take? Count the ones below the HOB. Its all right there, and you never change a single thing in the poem! In fact, REMOVING THE SPACES destroys the message. It must remain intact.

Also, once that is done, you can use the poem to STEP throuhg the hints in TTOTC further verifying it all.

This is no coincidence.

But most people take the poem and go to a map, this is WRONG. There are many places wwwh, we want a very specific one. The only reason the LGFI cannot get past the first two clues is simply because she is too young to drive and PUT-IN. You will never find the correct WWWH.

Also, to Natives, WARM waters are ANY waters that rise up from the ground. For example, at the SINK, the RISE is WARM. At 5 springs, the 5 springs are WARM, they do not freeze, water from below the Earth is always warmer than the water exposed. ALL of this stuff is not special knowledge. Leaving home without solving the CLUES before using a map is a total waste of time.

Far as using the poem to modify itself, Chris Yates had a very good example:

BUT(t) tarry scant WITH marvel gaze

Might be telling you to form a BUTT JOINT of "tarry scant marvel gaze", or more precisely their meaning. If tarry scant means to sit/stay/delay a short time, and marvel gaze is to look closely, than you could say "SIT on the bench at the overlook".

It doesn't take a long message to describe a CORRECT solve.
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06-28-2020, 06:12 PM,
#10
RE: Try the wheel - Samsmith - Our spot
(06-28-2020, 05:28 PM)legacyhelper Wrote: It doesn't take a long message to describe a CORRECT solve.

It don't, I can explain it in 24 lines. But I like to talk and explain things in detail. What do you like to do? I'll wait Smile Impress everyone, the stage is yours. Its on the Madison river? Maybe Eagles Nest? Or down at Browns Park? Maybe Molly browns neck of the woods?

Like I said, I only deal with serious people, not jokers Smile

So lets see your correct solve, amaze me with your brilliance, too many people baffle with BS.
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