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Here’s a new conspiracy theory...
04-16-2021, 11:40 AM,
#41
Here’s a new conspiracy theory...
For me, Weatherill was just another story of fraud and lies.

The legend of the Weatherill discovery of the cliff dwellings at Mesa Verde is total BS. Weatherill knew what was in those canyons and exactly where to find them. He had native scouts help him “discover” a place they knew as sacred, and consequently stayed away from. Then Weatherill cleared the place of most of the artifacts for his own personal gain. But he was revered for “discovering” Mesa Verde.

Forrest admitted that the bracelet wasn’t worth more than $20.

In contrast, a hundred years later Forrest was chastised by Native Americans and archaeologist for excavating San Lazaro—though he owned the land.
Reply
04-16-2021, 11:48 AM,
#42
RE: Here’s a new conspiracy theory...
(04-16-2021, 11:40 AM)crazyfamily Wrote: For me, Weatherill was just another story of fraud and lies.

The legend of the Weatherill discovery of the cliff dwellings at Mesa Verde is total BS. Weatherill knew what was in those canyons and exactly where to find them. He had native scouts help him “discover” a place they knew as sacred, and consequently stayed away from. Then Weatherill cleared the place of most of the artifacts for his own personal gain. But he was revered for “discovering” Mesa Verde.

Forrest admitted that the bracelet wasn’t worth more than $20.

In contrast, a hundred years later Forrest was chastised by Native Americans and archaeologist for excavating San Lazaro—though he owned the land.

Well, yes, what does "discover" mean to the people writing the history books? They say Christopher Columbus discovered America. I don't think the Native Americans thought that he "discovered" anything. They knew it was here all along.

When Christopher Columbus took Native Americans back to Spain, you don't have the history books writing about how "Native Americans discovered Spain."
Reply
04-16-2021, 12:46 PM,
#43
Here’s a new conspiracy theory...
Hell, Bandelier, Weatherill, even Forrest’s father has a park in his name sake. TTOTC was Forrest’s park.
Reply
04-16-2021, 01:26 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-16-2021, 02:14 PM by trueyeti.)
#44
RE: Here’s a new conspiracy theory...
(04-16-2021, 11:40 AM)crazyfamily Wrote: For me, Weatherill was just another story of fraud and lies.

The legend of the Weatherill discovery of the cliff dwellings at Mesa Verde is total BS. Weatherill knew what was in those canyons and exactly where to find them. He had native scouts help him “discover” a place they knew as sacred, and consequently stayed away from. Then Weatherill cleared the place of most of the artifacts for his own personal gain. But he was revered for “discovering” Mesa Verde.

Forrest admitted that the bracelet wasn’t worth more than $20.

In contrast, a hundred years later Forrest was chastised by Native Americans and archaeologist for excavating San Lazaro—though he owned the land.

Hi crazyfamily,
Richard Wetherill is something of a significant historical figure. And he does have something of a controversy associated with him too. His story is something of a mixed bag of good and bad, far as I can tell right now, but, below is a link to something of an historical document that from my interpretation shows that he and his family played an important role in the establishment of Chaco Canyon and other national treasured sights as federally protected sights.

Link to the informative document (a fellow named Jack is in there and treasure too):

https://www.canyoncountryzephyr.com/2019...vey-leake/

I have other links that seem to say that Richard Wetherill was something of a controversial figure. He is said to have died at the hands of a Navajo man (Wiki, I think), but there is the rub, because it could have been a white fellow that killed him too. Regardless, he was killed at/around Chaco and is burried there. He was chastised by the Native Americans there too. That Richard's excavations may have caused his death is the cloudy part of the story of his death.

I find it interesting that he excavated Native American ruin(s), just like Forrest.

Additionally, I found a document that outlined the time that Ford Harvey (Fred's son, Byron's father) travelled out to Chaco as Richard's guest. Word was that Richard had wanted the Harvey's to develop the area as a tourist destination on par with the Harvey House empire. The Harvey's had/have vast collections of Indian artifacts and donated much of it to museums.

Forrest lived across the street from the Harvey estate in Santa Fe. I wonder how much of Forrest's collection (in his study in the pictures), if any, was obtained from the Harvey's collection. We know where the bracelet was obtained.

There are many parallels with respect to Forrest, the Harveys, and the Wetherill family IMO.

(04-15-2021, 09:20 PM)ravenhome777 Wrote: Hi Trueyeti,

Thank you for this very thoughtful and heartfelt response. I find your comparison to your marriage and divorce quite insightful, and I can see the connection between the two. I think most people have moved on from the Chase now that the treasure has been found, but for some reason I'm still interested in it. I guess it has become part of my life somehow. It's a little bit like the feeling of being a kid, and having all your friends over and all your toys out in the playroom, and then at a certain point your friends leave to go home, and you're left alone in a silent room with all your toys scattered about and the remnants of fun memories, but it's a lonely feeling as you clean up the mess in the darkness.

But, in any case, I think you're on to something with the "Gold Standard". That is a concept that I could see Forrest using in the Chase. The Rosetta Stone being the gold standard and the key. "Gold and More" is a critical chapter for sure. I never thought about the "..and More" part. That's interesting. I just re-visited that chapter. It's very well written and you can feel the sense of imagination and wonder dripping from each sentence and thought. I had forgotten some parts of that chapter, and you reminded me that he does discuss the Wetherill bracelet there.

I just discovered this article about Louisa Wetherill:
https://tucson.com/news/local/western-wo...30b51.html

I didn't know anything about the Bisti Badlands and the Ojo Alamo store. That's very interesting.

https://www.canyoncountryzephyr.com/2019...vey-leake/

Hi Ravenhome777,
You are a scholar and a gentleman. It is my hope that together this community can trudge onward and forward. And I think that we are.

I will certainly look at those links. Here is one for you that details the trip that Ford Harvey made out to Chaco to meet Richard.

Link
https://erenow.net/biographies/appetite-...ica/22.php


Here is a picture of the Ojo Alamo Store in Bisti a long time ago
http://luirig.altervista.org/pics/index4......&page=1

I am considering writting a book to self publish for friends and family in the future and some of the documents that I had bookmarked in the past have gone away and I need to find them again.

The Gold Standard, as I cited that Bisti represents, is a place to start as an overview and as a "smoking gun," that points to Bisti. The points in that overview, (findings in "Gold and More"), are the main points of the findings and acts as a "Rosetta Stone" that takes a searcher to the grove of Juniper trees in the shape of an arrow at Bisti (they get you to Bisti), but IMO a book will fill in all the details...but that is a lot of pages IMO...a work in progress.

But there is plenty enough to get a searcher to Bisti and to the chest as it stands.
Reply
04-16-2021, 04:45 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-16-2021, 05:06 PM by ravenhome777.)
#45
RE: Here’s a new conspiracy theory...
(04-16-2021, 01:26 PM)trueyeti Wrote:
(04-16-2021, 11:40 AM)crazyfamily Wrote: For me, Weatherill was just another story of fraud and lies.

The legend of the Weatherill discovery of the cliff dwellings at Mesa Verde is total BS. Weatherill knew what was in those canyons and exactly where to find them. He had native scouts help him “discover” a place they knew as sacred, and consequently stayed away from. Then Weatherill cleared the place of most of the artifacts for his own personal gain. But he was revered for “discovering” Mesa Verde.

Forrest admitted that the bracelet wasn’t worth more than $20.

In contrast, a hundred years later Forrest was chastised by Native Americans and archaeologist for excavating San Lazaro—though he owned the land.

Hi crazyfamily,
Richard Wetherill is something of a significant historical figure. And he does have something of a controversy associated with him too. His story is something of a mixed bag of good and bad, far as I can tell right now, but, below is a link to something of an historical document that from my interpretation shows that he and his family played an important role in the establishment of Chaco Canyon and other national treasured sights as federally protected sights.

Link to the informative document (a fellow named Jack is in there and treasure too):

https://www.canyoncountryzephyr.com/2019...vey-leake/

I have other links that seem to say that Richard Wetherill was something of a controversial figure. He is said to have died at the hands of a Navajo man (Wiki, I think), but there is the rub, because it could have been a white fellow that killed him too. Regardless, he was killed at/around Chaco and is burried there. He was chastised by the Native Americans there too. That Richard's excavations may have caused his death is the cloudy part of the story of his death.

I find it interesting that he excavated Native American ruin(s), just like Forrest.

Additionally, I found a document that outlined the time that Ford Harvey (Fred's son, Byron's father) travelled out to Chaco as Richard's guest. Word was that Richard had wanted the Harvey's to develop the area as a tourist destination on par with the Harvey House empire. The Harvey's had/have vast collections of Indian artifacts and donated much of it to museums.

Forrest lived across the street from the Harvey estate in Santa Fe. I wonder how much of Forrest's collection (in his study in the pictures), if any, was obtained from the Harvey's collection. We know where the bracelet was obtained.

There are many parallels with respect to Forrest, the Harveys, and the Wetherill family IMO.

(04-15-2021, 09:20 PM)ravenhome777 Wrote: Hi Trueyeti,

Thank you for this very thoughtful and heartfelt response. I find your comparison to your marriage and divorce quite insightful, and I can see the connection between the two. I think most people have moved on from the Chase now that the treasure has been found, but for some reason I'm still interested in it. I guess it has become part of my life somehow. It's a little bit like the feeling of being a kid, and having all your friends over and all your toys out in the playroom, and then at a certain point your friends leave to go home, and you're left alone in a silent room with all your toys scattered about and the remnants of fun memories, but it's a lonely feeling as you clean up the mess in the darkness.

But, in any case, I think you're on to something with the "Gold Standard". That is a concept that I could see Forrest using in the Chase. The Rosetta Stone being the gold standard and the key. "Gold and More" is a critical chapter for sure. I never thought about the "..and More" part. That's interesting. I just re-visited that chapter. It's very well written and you can feel the sense of imagination and wonder dripping from each sentence and thought. I had forgotten some parts of that chapter, and you reminded me that he does discuss the Wetherill bracelet there.

I just discovered this article about Louisa Wetherill:
https://tucson.com/news/local/western-wo...30b51.html

I didn't know anything about the Bisti Badlands and the Ojo Alamo store. That's very interesting.

https://www.canyoncountryzephyr.com/2019...vey-leake/

Hi Ravenhome777,
You are a scholar and a gentleman. It is my hope that together this community can trudge onward and forward. And I think that we are.

I will certainly look at those links. Here is one for you that details the trip that Ford Harvey made out to Chaco to meet Richard.

Link
https://erenow.net/biographies/appetite-...ica/22.php


Here is a picture of the Ojo Alamo Store in Bisti a long time ago
http://luirig.altervista.org/pics/index4......&page=1

I am considering writting a book to self publish for friends and family in the future and some of the documents that I had bookmarked in the past have gone away and I need to find them again.

The Gold Standard, as I cited that Bisti represents, is a place to start as an overview and as a "smoking gun," that points to Bisti. The points in that overview, (findings in "Gold and More"), are the main points of the findings and acts as a "Rosetta Stone" that takes a searcher to the grove of Juniper trees in the shape of an arrow at Bisti (they get you to Bisti), but IMO a book will fill in all the details...but that is a lot of pages IMO...a work in progress.

But there is plenty enough to get a searcher to Bisti and to the chest as it stands.

This is very interesting to me and there is a lot to think about here. I have always been interested in the story of Wetherill and the bracelet. It sounds like your research has uncovered that there is more to the story then we may have been told.

I am a native of New England, and the Southwest is quite foreign to me. I drove through it quickly during a road trip 10 years ago, but that is my only exposure. However, the Chase has really piqued my interest in this area. The more I learn about it, the more I am realizing that there is a very rich history there. It seems like lots of the history is not widely known outside of the region, which makes sense. I have been watching videos from Old Pawn Jewelry (https://www.medicinemangallery.com) and it seems like all of the folks he interviews have endless stories to tell about the area. It makes me realize that I was at quite a disadvantage as an outsider getting involved in the Chase, as Forrest was quite well versed in the local history of the area.

If you end up writing your book, I'd love to take a look at it.

I have an old camper and I daydream about taking a trip down to the Southwest and spending some time in Taos and painting the area. Maybe someday I'll get to do that.


.....

I read the first part of that article. I have been very interested in Mesa Verde. I believe the story goes that the beads in FFs bracelet were found at Mesa Verde, if I am remembering that correctly.

I was talking to someone about the Quakers this past weekend. So Wetherill was a Quaker. I like that he allowed the natives to come stay on his farm and he befriended them. That's such a cool picture of the man in the hammock over the stream. He looks very happy. I have always been intrigued with native americans since I was a young. I become friends with some native Nipmucs here in Massachusetts and they invited me to attend classes and learn their language. I took classes with them for several years and it was a very rewarding experience on many levels. I was never good at learning languages in school, but for some reason the native indian language was much more natural for me to learn. I realized that you can understand the culture of people much better by learning their language. It seems to open a door on their perspective of life in a unique way.
Reply
04-16-2021, 09:20 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-16-2021, 09:27 PM by trueyeti.)
#46
RE: Here’s a new conspiracy theory...
Hi ravenhome777
The word profundity calls to mind those other times, where the lives of men and women from the days of old were quite astounding. There is a saying, “the West is the best”. The non-fiction ancestral characters of Harvey Leake’s story lived prolific lives. You know Douglas Preston rode a horse something like a thousand miles on a quest for gold, well as I understand it, he retraced trails used by the Spaniards of old in their quest for the Lost 7 Cities of Gold, then he wrote a book. Prolific lives many a folk lived. IMO Forrest is like one of those folks in that he lived a life that was prolific, and he connected with many people of similar character. He called Max Evans a friend/acquaintance (a writer and a legend). I wonder if Forrest ever met Georgia O’Keefe. Many of the people in Forrest’s orbit had deep connections and relationships with the Native Americans in their lives. They were intimately aware of the culture, myths, traditions, etc.

I have adventures too, but they are mostly had from the potato of my couch. Forrest got me up off that couch with his invitation to adventure and I am glad that I accepted. The drudgery of modern American life largely entails job and home. And these days a lot of the couch too.

That article by Leake took me to another place. That guy is a writer! And the photos! The Ojo Alamo! That picture with John Wetherill and his wife looks straight out of the set of a classic old western movie. They lived lives of adventure. And the Quaker tie in with the Native American spirituality to me demonstrates a symbiotic relationship. That “inner light” that acts as guide is what life is all about IMO and is in all people. Just asleep in some.

The article said this to me and spoke of the happiness of the peoples inside of their hearts and minds. I do not know if you looked at my string titled, “Thoughts to Consider,” but I found that the Double Omega symbol represents happiness and links directly to Forrest’s quote about happiness being the pot for poker in his preface.

The one time I met Forrest he autographed my two copies of TTOTC. Shortly after I left, I then returned to him and said, “I almost forgot. The whole reason I came to Fennboree today was to shake your hand.” Forrest slowly stood from his chair, (his years were apparent), but standing straight as an arrow, he looked at me with those sharp blue eyes and put out his hand. As I grasped his hand in mine, I then looked away. Shortly after I made a trip to Bisti and emailed him upon my return and reminded him that I was the guy who asked to shake his hand. I apologized to him and wrote, “I know that you are supposed to look into the eyes of a man when you shake his hand, but Forrest, I continued, it is very difficult to look you in the eyes, because there’s so much light in there”. In his eyes there was something unsettling and deep and magical.

That light in his eyes, is like that happiness that he wrote about in his quote about poker, and IMO is represented by the Double Omega (Thoughts to Consider string, and the Golden “W” on the frog). IMO, it is the same light that Leake is referring to with respect to the Wetherill’s experience in their lives among the Navajos. This light is among all people and yet the article does a fine job in making light of it (pardon the pun).

Maybe when Forrest said that he wanted to get those kids off their machines, what it really was in disguise, was his invitation to us for adventure. And if you accept the invitation, then it activates that inner light and it can shine golden. It becomes a Golden Double Omega, (happiness) and is a link in the chain that is to be shared from one Omega, to the next Omega, one end to the next, one person to the next.…like the old song Johnny Cash and the June Carter Family sang titled, “Will the Circle be Unbroken”. The love you share, is the love you leave behind, and what is love, but happiness?
Reply
04-16-2021, 09:55 PM,
#47
RE: Here’s a new conspiracy theory...
(04-16-2021, 09:20 PM)trueyeti Wrote: Hi ravenhome777
The word profundity calls to mind those other times, where the lives of men and women from the days of old were quite astounding. There is a saying, “the West is the best”. The non-fiction ancestral characters of Harvey Leake’s story lived prolific lives. You know Douglas Preston rode a horse something like a thousand miles on a quest for gold, well as I understand it, he retraced trails used by the Spaniards of old in their quest for the Lost 7 Cities of Gold, then he wrote a book. Prolific lives many a folk lived. IMO Forrest is like one of those folks in that he lived a life that was prolific, and he connected with many people of similar character. He called Max Evans a friend/acquaintance (a writer and a legend). I wonder if Forrest ever met Georgia O’Keefe. Many of the people in Forrest’s orbit had deep connections and relationships with the Native Americans in their lives. They were intimately aware of the culture, myths, traditions, etc.

I have adventures too, but they are mostly had from the potato of my couch. Forrest got me up off that couch with his invitation to adventure and I am glad that I accepted. The drudgery of modern American life largely entails job and home. And these days a lot of the couch too.

That article by Leake took me to another place. That guy is a writer! And the photos! The Ojo Alamo! That picture with John Wetherill and his wife looks straight out of the set of a classic old western movie. They lived lives of adventure. And the Quaker tie in with the Native American spirituality to me demonstrates a symbiotic relationship. That “inner light” that acts as guide is what life is all about IMO and is in all people. Just asleep in some.

The article said this to me and spoke of the happiness of the peoples inside of their hearts and minds. I do not know if you looked at my string titled, “Thoughts to Consider,” but I found that the Double Omega symbol represents happiness and links directly to Forrest’s quote about happiness being the pot for poker in his preface.

The one time I met Forrest he autographed my two copies of TTOTC. Shortly after I left, I then returned to him and said, “I almost forgot. The whole reason I came to Fennboree today was to shake your hand.” Forrest slowly stood from his chair, (his years were apparent), but standing straight as an arrow, he looked at me with those sharp blue eyes and put out his hand. As I grasped his hand in mine, I then looked away. Shortly after I made a trip to Bisti and emailed him upon my return and reminded him that I was the guy who asked to shake his hand. I apologized to him and wrote, “I know that you are supposed to look into the eyes of a man when you shake his hand, but Forrest, I continued, it is very difficult to look you in the eyes, because there’s so much light in there”. In his eyes there was something unsettling and deep and magical.

That light in his eyes, is like that happiness that he wrote about in his quote about poker, and IMO is represented by the Double Omega (Thoughts to Consider string, and the Golden “W” on the frog). IMO, it is the same light that Leake is referring to with respect to the Wetherill’s experience in their lives among the Navajos. This light is among all people and yet the article does a fine job in making light of it (pardon the pun).

Maybe when Forrest said that he wanted to get those kids off their machines, what it really was in disguise, was his invitation to us for adventure. And if you accept the invitation, then it activates that inner light and it can shine golden. It becomes a Golden Double Omega, (happiness) and is a link in the chain that is to be shared from one Omega, to the next Omega, one end to the next, one person to the next.…like the old song Johnny Cash and the June Carter Family sang titled, “Will the Circle be Unbroken”. The love you share, is the love you leave behind, and what is love, but happiness?

Profundity, indeed. Those are some very profound words there, my friend. I agree with all of them.
Reply
3 hours ago, (This post was last modified: 1 hour ago by crazyfamily.)
#48
Here’s a new conspiracy theory...
So, now we’re quoting pot-philosophers?

Ironic that your respect for Forrest stops at YOUR solution. Forrest is just wrong about HIS solution, huh? It just wasn’t in Wyoming, right?

Of course Forrest met Okeefe. You don’t remember his stories about that? Of course you don’t, because if you did you would know that he didn’t have much respect for her.

It might be a romantic thought that the west is the best, but the fact is most early exploration came at the cost of human lives. Native Americans were slaves to the Spanish. Spaniards chopped the feet of natives at Acoma when they refused to supply them with food and blankets—encomienda/ repartimiento. Trappers, pioneers, cowboys, and settlers all killed Indians. If you read his book, Osborne Russell was a hack. He didn’t know a thing about surviving in the wilderness and survived purely on his ability to evade the “enemy” and kill with accuracy. Buffalo Bill was duped by the government to kill as many Buffalo as he could in a stupid contest to stroke egos and deplete the main food source of plains Indians. Weatherill, Bandelier and other early explorers pillaged sacred sites for their own profit. No, romanticizing the marginalization or EXPLOITATION of Native Americans is not the same as honoring and supporting them through understanding their story and acting in positive ways to ensure their longevity.

I now firmly believe that Forrest’s treasure hunt was a tribute to his family, and had little(or nothing) to do with Indians and history.
Reply
25 minutes ago, (This post was last modified: 9 minutes ago by trueyeti.)
#49
RE: Here’s a new conspiracy theory...
(3 hours ago)crazyfamily Wrote: So, now we’re quoting pot-philosophers?

Ironic that your respect for Forrest stops at YOUR solution. Forrest is just wrong about HIS solution, huh? It just wasn’t in Wyoming, right?

Of course Forrest met Okeefe. You don’t remember his stories about that? Of course you don’t, because if you did you would know that he didn’t have much respect for her.

It might be a romantic thought that the west is the best, but the fact is most early exploration came at the cost of human lives. Native Americans were slaves to the Spanish. Spaniards chopped the feet of natives at Acoma when they refused to supply them with food and blankets—encomienda/ repartimiento. Trappers, pioneers, cowboys, and settlers all killed Indians. If you read his book, Osborne Russell was a hack. He didn’t know a thing about surviving in the wilderness and survived purely on his ability to evade the “enemy” and kill with accuracy. Buffalo Bill was duped by the government to kill as many Buffalo as he could in a stupid contest to stroke egos and deplete the main food source of plains Indians. Weatherill, Bandelier and other early explorers pillaged sacred sites for their own profit. No, romanticizing the marginalization or EXPLOITATION of Native Americans is not the same as honoring and supporting them through understanding their story and acting in positive ways to ensure their longevity.

I now firmly believe that Forrest’s treasure hunt was a tribute to his family, and had little(or nothing) to do with Indians and history.


Hi crazyfamily,

I did not quote any pot-philosophers. What I wrote was, “like the old song Johnny Cash and the June Carter Family sang”. “Like”.

Thanks for the reminder about Georgia. You make a lot of good points with respect to all the atrocities that have been done over the span of the settling of the New World and I agree. The romanticization of all aspects of life is a trait of the human animal. IMO that is what a treasure hunt is all about.

Ronnie James Dio sings, “we search for the truth, we could die upon the tooth, but the thrill of just the chase is worth the pain”. Now I am sure that you are going to accuse me of quoting a devil-worshiper or something. Point is that you are squirming and lashing out…. Remember when Darth Vader said to Luke, “you are beaten, it is useless to resist”. How about when the Evil Emperor said to Luke, “Good, I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon. Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!” Squirming with anger in defeat you are, (sounds like something Yoda would say).

The capitalization of the words, “yours and his” is funny, and a treasure hunt is supposed to be fun after all. That I disclose the Bisti Solution is necessary. I call it the “Gold Standard” for a reason that is self-evident. It is a deciphered location. I wrote in another string that, “this finding alone refutes Wyoming extremely powerfully all by itself”. I have asked you several times to deny those findings. And I have put forth the question, “why say Wyoming if it is not?. What do you have to contribute but angrily written, YOURS and HIS? You don’t know beans from buttons crazyfamily. I wrote earlier, “contribute something useful with respect to moving forward with the Chase, or do not contribute my friend”. I think you like the abuse…lol…

Part and parcel to your modus operandi is attempting to invalidate folks that have a different point of view that does not jive with yours. I understand that Bisti is not Wyoming, but the facts are the facts. I have shown that it is possible to mislead without really lying, and now I will show that it is possible to agree, to disagree, with you. I wrote earlier that I am aware of the sensitivities that searchers have with respect to Wyoming and New Mexico. I also said that I empathize with people and the way the Chase ended. Sometimes things take time, and I am patient and understanding.

When you wrote, “I now firmly believe that Forrest’s treasure hunt was a tribute to his family, and had little(or nothing) to do with Indians and history”. I agree and disagree with you. Civility is a good thing? If you are unable to discredit the “Rosetta Stone,” and “Gold-Standard” that Bisti represents as a deciphered location, without being able to prove otherwise…. besides clinging to, “Wyoming,” then, IMO, you have demonstrated that you disagree.

You wrote, “Ironic that your respect for Forrest stops at YOUR solution. Forrest is just wrong about HIS solution, huh? It just wasn’t in Wyoming, right?”

The findings within the Bisti Solution speak for themselves. Ask yourself about it instead of me. As far as my respect for Forrest goes, you are not even wrong….

Not even wrong link:
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong
Reply


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