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Stanza #1
08-28-2015, 04:38 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-28-2015, 05:23 PM by samsmith.)
#31
RE: Stanza #1
(08-27-2015, 11:33 PM)Larsonist Wrote: Picking the word TREASURES as your key word simply because it is the longest word in the poem smacks of newbies looking for words and signs scratched into tree bark. Very thin ice to build a solution on.

Same thing everyone does...Pick a word, any word, and try to make it work...This one does if you follow instructions... Smile

If a key is used then ff must necessarily have some way to identify it to the reader of the poem...This is my choice and my method...You can use whatever pleases you... Smile

It must be in the poem if someone 100 years from now is searching for the chest and the poem is all the documentation and directions they have...

I see it as no different than symbols and drawings on a piece of parchment except we must find our own X... Smile

(08-27-2015, 11:54 PM)true north Wrote: Sam,
I also have applied this theory, using the word Treasures , has one kink in it, it has multiple sets of letters , so the position of the letters in the word in the sentence must be in play.
I crossed them against the capitals (bold) and again against position in other lines.
I.e.
T being the 10th letter also on another line, giving us the first of nine clues.
I couldn't find the fit, now my brain hurts.

Working out the kinks was the fun part...You must figure all this out without changing anything at all in the poem... Smile

It is imperative that every word, letter, space, and punctuation mark must remain in their place...I see only one way to do this, and I'm not talking just yet... Smile

(08-28-2015, 12:02 AM)Plato II Wrote: Hi Sam,

Thanks for sharing your ideas on the first stanza. At first reading it sounds good, but then I would have to question this statement that you made:

"And if TREASURES is the key, I can see also how each line may now be prefaced with the words 'The key'...
The key stands alone in the poem
The key is blatantly stated,
The key hides the location within the poem***
The key hints of riches twice in the poem"

If the key stands "alone" in the poem and the key is "treasures", then how does the key hint of treasures/riches "twice" in the poem? Didn't you just say that the key stands alone? It sounds like a contradiction to your first clue. But, it does sound interesting that you think that "I" represents the chest speaking, or am I wrong to think that of your statement? How does your view of "treasures"(the key) get you to a location or general area of the chest?

These are just some questions that I would think that you have thought of during your process of searching for the first clue and the keyword. Except for the contradiction above you may be on to something.

Thanks for sharing clue #one. Now for clue #two.

Ritt

Edit: and, on second thought....how does the key 'treasure/chest' hide the location in the poem?

Hiya Plato II/Ritt!...Long time no hear!...To answer a couple of your questions...I said the key stands alone in the poem because it is singled out by being the only word with 9 letters(9clues!) not based on how many times it was used...Also because it is the one word that each line of the first stanza appeared to be referencing in one fashion or another...About hinting, ask yourself this...What is the first thing you think of when you hear the word 'treasures'?...And used twice because one is openly stated and the other is the hidden somewhere in the poem...Finding what is hidden is working out clue # 2, the location...Figuring out how this hiding is done and where is probably the hardest part, ff himself said it was... Smile

Yes I think the 'I' is the chest w/its treasures speaking...It simply made more sense to me than if ff were talking here..Somehow if it were ff talking it would seem to me to be senseless for him to be stating the obvious:
of course he was alone, he said so;
of course he carried his treasure boldly, he said he used his hands and a backpack;
of course he can keep his secret where, he's the only one to know;
of course he hints of riches, ergo the poem...
All this in the first stanza simply must have greater meaning than reading it literally...So to me it was a who/what question as to the speaker...I chose what...Remember, here in the beginning of the poem I am attempting to find where to go first, I am not looking for the chest just yet...Sort of putting one foot down and stepping on it to go to the next... Smile

The method of hiding the info is the lock and opening it reveals clue #2, the location... Smile
Reply
08-28-2015, 06:25 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-28-2015, 06:33 PM by samsmith.)
#32
RE: Stanza #1
(08-28-2015, 12:22 AM)Project Why Wrote: I believe the first stanza just tells one where to FIND WWWH. Nothing more. It has to. Otherwise, how does one locate it out of the 'many'? And that is still very difficult!! Yet we want to make it even more so?? IMO, WWWH IS the starting point and of course, the most important clue!! The first stanza must confirm it and point to it. He's mentioned time and time again how important that clue is and if we don't have it 'nailed down', then it will be pretty much impossible.

I just don't see those other 'searchers' who emailed ff as using any of these overly drawn out theories as has been mentioned here at times, especially when 'those' who had been 'close' and 'those' that mentioned the first two clues had told him this very early on in the chase.

PW...By saying 'how does one locate it out of the 'many'? I surmise you are taking these words literally...I think it is trickier than that...I read the line as telling us to do something, take an action, not to look for a somewhere on a map...

We know we must have a singular and indisputable starting point, on this I agree...It is just that I can see one that you apparently do not because of the way I am attempting to solve for the search location...I already have my first clue, that the key hides the location in the poem...But what you see as the first clue and starting point, I see as the method and instructions to find what is hidden, my second clue... Smile

We read it differently is all...Who knows what ff was told and by whom except ff himself?...I take every statement he makes with a grain of salt...Mainly because I can see how he uses wordplay, not to deceive, but he will certainly let you mislead yourself and not correct you... Smile

Edit: I forgot to say, it only seems overly drawn out by trying to explain it fully...If you see the solution itself on paper, it appears much shorter and more concise... Smile
Reply
08-28-2015, 07:32 PM,
#33
RE: Stanza #1
(08-28-2015, 06:25 PM)samsmith Wrote:
(08-28-2015, 12:22 AM)Project Why Wrote: I believe the first stanza just tells one where to FIND WWWH. Nothing more. It has to. Otherwise, how does one locate it out of the 'many'? And that is still very difficult!! Yet we want to make it even more so?? IMO, WWWH IS the starting point and of course, the most important clue!! The first stanza must confirm it and point to it. He's mentioned time and time again how important that clue is and if we don't have it 'nailed down', then it will be pretty much impossible.

I just don't see those other 'searchers' who emailed ff as using any of these overly drawn out theories as has been mentioned here at times, especially when 'those' who had been 'close' and 'those' that mentioned the first two clues had told him this very early on in the chase.

PW...By saying 'how does one locate it out of the 'many'? I surmise you are taking these words literally...I think it is trickier than that...I read the line as telling us to do something, take an action, not to look for a somewhere on a map...

We know we must have a singular and indisputable starting point, on this I agree...It is just that I can see one that you apparently do not because of the way I am attempting to solve for the search location...I already have my first clue, that the key hides the location in the poem...But what you see as the first clue and starting point, I see as the method and instructions to find what is hidden, my second clue... Smile

We read it differently is all...Who knows what ff was told and by whom except ff himself?...I take every statement he makes with a grain of salt...Mainly because I can see how he uses wordplay, not to deceive, but he will certainly let you mislead yourself and not correct you... Smile

Edit: I forgot to say, it only seems overly drawn out by trying to explain it fully...If you see the solution itself on paper, it appears much shorter and more concise... Smile

Samsmith,

Well, so much for the poem and the right map, huh. :-)

Must be perplexing to always believe he is saying something completely contrary to what appears to be straightforward? What a paradox.

"It is just that I can see one that you apparently do not because of the way I am attempting to solve for the search location".

Exactly!! I don't NEED to see it your way. You're attempting to solve it for YOUR search location, not anyone else's. You will always see it differently so as to make it fit. Conformation bias.

The difference though, between you and me, is that I will try many, many theories, both simple and complex, in many, many locations, .....NOT just ONE theory in ONE search location. Good luck with that!!

You know, you say you take everything he says "with a grain of salt", yet you seem to be the most hung up on it. Maybe you're the one being misled, my friend. You're misleading yourself!! :-)

Peace.......... Sam.

*******************************************************************
"But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd." - Jules Winnfield
Reply
08-28-2015, 07:46 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-28-2015, 07:49 PM by fundamental design.)
#34
RE: Stanza #1
(08-28-2015, 04:38 PM)samsmith Wrote: Yes I think the 'I' is the chest w/its treasures speaking...It simply made more sense to me than if ff were talking here..Somehow if it were ff talking it would seem to me to be senseless for him to be stating the obvious:
of course he was alone, he said so;
of course he carried his treasure boldly, he said he used his hands and a backpack;
of course he can keep his secret where, he's the only one to know;
of course he hints of riches, ergo the poem...
All this in the first stanza simply must have greater meaning than reading it literally...So to me it was a who/what question as to the speaker...I chose what...Remember, here in the beginning of the poem I am attempting to find where to go first, I am not looking for the chest just yet...Sort of putting one foot down and stepping on it to go to the next...

Samsmith, I really like your thinking here with the obviousness of what ff did in the first stanza. I also like that you take a big picture view of this obviousness and think it relates to a who, what or where question as to the speaker. I've had similar thoughts and I chose 'who'. It lead me to a starting point and then get to a wwwh. I then used a word that is key later down in the poem. And who knows where it gets us. Keep up the good fight!


Howdy, Mister.
Reply
08-28-2015, 08:43 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-28-2015, 08:49 PM by Plato II.)
#35
RE: Stanza #1
(08-28-2015, 04:38 PM)samsmith Wrote:
(08-27-2015, 11:33 PM)Larsonist Wrote: Picking the word TREASURES as your key word simply because it is the longest word in the poem smacks of newbies looking for words and signs scratched into tree bark. Very thin ice to build a solution on.

Same thing everyone does...Pick a word, any word, and try to make it work...This one does if you follow instructions... Smile

If a key is used then ff must necessarily have some way to identify it to the reader of the poem...This is my choice and my method...You can use whatever pleases you... Smile

It must be in the poem if someone 100 years from now is searching for the chest and the poem is all the documentation and directions they have...

I see it as no different than symbols and drawings on a piece of parchment except we must find our own X... Smile

(08-27-2015, 11:54 PM)true north Wrote: Sam,
I also have applied this theory, using the word Treasures , has one kink in it, it has multiple sets of letters , so the position of the letters in the word in the sentence must be in play.
I crossed them against the capitals (bold) and again against position in other lines.
I.e.
T being the 10th letter also on another line, giving us the first of nine clues.
I couldn't find the fit, now my brain hurts.

Working out the kinks was the fun part...You must figure all this out without changing anything at all in the poem... Smile

It is imperative that every word, letter, space, and punctuation mark must remain in their place...I see only one way to do this, and I'm not talking just yet... Smile

(08-28-2015, 12:02 AM)Plato II Wrote: Hi Sam,

Thanks for sharing your ideas on the first stanza. At first reading it sounds good, but then I would have to question this statement that you made:

"And if TREASURES is the key, I can see also how each line may now be prefaced with the words 'The key'...
The key stands alone in the poem
The key is blatantly stated,
The key hides the location within the poem***
The key hints of riches twice in the poem"

If the key stands "alone" in the poem and the key is "treasures", then how does the key hint of treasures/riches "twice" in the poem? Didn't you just say that the key stands alone? It sounds like a contradiction to your first clue. But, it does sound interesting that you think that "I" represents the chest speaking, or am I wrong to think that of your statement? How does your view of "treasures"(the key) get you to a location or general area of the chest?

These are just some questions that I would think that you have thought of during your process of searching for the first clue and the keyword. Except for the contradiction above you may be on to something.

Thanks for sharing clue #one. Now for clue #two.

Ritt

Edit: and, on second thought....how does the key 'treasure/chest' hide the location in the poem?

Hiya Plato II/Ritt!...Long time no hear!...To answer a couple of your questions...I said the key stands alone in the poem because it is singled out by being the only word with 9 letters(9clues!) not based on how many times it was used...Also because it is the one word that each line of the first stanza appeared to be referencing in one fashion or another...About hinting, ask yourself this...What is the first thing you think of when you hear the word 'treasures'?...And used twice because one is openly stated and the other is the hidden somewhere in the poem...Finding what is hidden is working out clue # 2, the location...Figuring out how this hiding is done and where is probably the hardest part, ff himself said it was... Smile

Yes I think the 'I' is the chest w/its treasures speaking...It simply made more sense to me than if ff were talking here..Somehow if it were ff talking it would seem to me to be senseless for him to be stating the obvious:
of course he was alone, he said so;
of course he carried his treasure boldly, he said he used his hands and a backpack;
of course he can keep his secret where, he's the only one to know;
of course he hints of riches, ergo the poem...
All this in the first stanza simply must have greater meaning than reading it literally...So to me it was a who/what question as to the speaker...I chose what...Remember, here in the beginning of the poem I am attempting to find where to go first, I am not looking for the chest just yet...Sort of putting one foot down and stepping on it to go to the next... Smile

The method of hiding the info is the lock and opening it reveals clue #2, the location... Smile

Forrest said the hints will help you with the clues and the clues will get you closer to the TC. I don't see where your clue #1 gets you closer to the TC. It only hints at a clue. Try your clue #2 on us.

Sorry, but I think you are going down the rabbit hole.
Reply
08-29-2015, 12:24 PM,
#36
RE: Stanza #1
I believe stanza #1 is the hint to find WWWH which is the first clue.
Reply
08-29-2015, 04:32 PM,
#37
RE: Stanza #1
I believe stanza #1 includes hints to confirm the contiguous clues of stanzas 2 & 3, which begin with wwwh, which is the first clue.

Halogetter
Reply
08-29-2015, 04:34 PM,
#38
RE: Stanza #1
I agree
Reply


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