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Two code type things
04-20-2016, 11:44 PM,
#1
Two code type things
Hi all,

Two quick notes:

1. I had previously written about how Meriwether Lewis could (fascinatingly) be anagrammed to lead to Ada Lovelace via Ernie Els and Byron Nelson. Further research shows that her "Note G" was done in conjunction with Charles Babbage. Among the many genius things he did, he was the first to break the Vignere cipher. He was associated with Oxford university. Also associated with Oxford was Lewis Carroll (the author of Alice in Wonderland) who "invented" a small variation of the Vignere cipher. And, finally, Meriwether Lewis was supposed to use a variation of the Vignere Cipher "invented" by Thomas Jefferson.

Whether or not the Vignere cipher is used isn't something I'm sure about. (I know Fenn said no ciphers, but you can't trust what he says and, further, the SB he says that in is its own code.) At any rate, I keep finding the Vignere cipher through multiple connections so I thought I'd point out another set.

2. Fenn had mentioned that "if you've found contentment then everything has fallen into place". Or something like that. Out of curiosity, I treated the columns of the poem as wheels and "let the columns fall" by rotating them. You can get "contentment" both forwards and backwards by doing this. It's not as trivial as it might seem... you can try it out for yourself and see that it only shows up once in each direction. Other words and phrases that seem to be important also show up. It sometimes appears (but could just be bias) that phrases in other rows are trying to show up. The problem is that even though words like "contentment" only show up in one area, multiple instances of the letters in each column shows up. For instance, the first "e" might have four "e's" that could be used. Some columns just have one letter so it's easy.

At any rate, it's a curiosity that I figured I'd share.

Good luck to all.
Reply
04-21-2016, 07:14 PM,
#2
RE: Two code type things
Tough to know what to do with the information. One more interesting tidbit was that someone recently posted about the importance of the number 20. It turns out that there are 20 columns of letters. After that you start losing lines as their respective sentences end.
Reply
04-21-2016, 07:26 PM,
#3
RE: Two code type things
(04-21-2016, 07:14 PM)Chmaanta Wrote: Tough to know what to do with the information. One more interesting tidbit was that someone recently posted about the importance of the number 20. It turns out that there are 20 columns of letters. After that you start losing lines as their respective sentences end.

With that example, it has been pointed out that the 20th letter of each line (stanza 1) gives

HORN

They are part of his website dedign.
.
=====

DON’T RESEARCH...THINK!!!

https://www.allmovie.com/movie/v46056

WP (stock symbol)
.
Reply
04-21-2016, 08:57 PM,
#4
RE: Two code type things
(04-21-2016, 07:14 PM)Chmaanta Wrote: Tough to know what to do with the information.

Would it be hard to screenshot a version of the poem in the format that yields the words you're mentioning? You mentioned things about rotating, dropping, fall into place, "not as trivial as it seems." At this time I don't feel motivated (and I doubt many do) to go through the effort of trying to discover what you discovered, but I'd love to see a visual representation of what you've discovered.

It depends what your motivation is, do you want people to discuss and collaborate on your solution ideas, or do you just want to give hints to people, but they have to follow your hints and go solve it for themselves?
Reply
04-22-2016, 12:17 AM,
#5
RE: Two code type things
I simply put the poem in Excel, one letter per cell. Then I moved columns of letters up and down to spell out different words. I would be happy to post pictures of many things, but I would have to install the app and that's not interesting to me.

Additional things I could spell were "John H.I. Morse", the commander of his rescue mission. You can find "Lillie Fenn" both directions, but "William Fenn" is only found if spelled backwards. "Earhart" is found both directions, but "Amelia Earhart" can only be found backwards. "Meriwether Lewis" can be found backwards. Names that I was looking for, but could not find are "Jamerson, Maples, Orville Wright, Lindbergh, Skippy, June, and Peggy".

Examples of words that could lead you to think you're onto something are "Ans. Key" in the first six columns when you spell "Reese AFB" (in Lubbock) backwards. Spelling Meriwether Lewis gives you words such as "saying", "lives", and "nest" and that's with trying just one combination of letters within the columns that have multiple options. So it's easy to see why even if this was "real" that you would need to know how to turn the wheels to the right locations and which parts of the wheel to read off and in what order.

My ultimate goal is to provide insight as clearly as possible with no ambiguity. Collaboration would be great, as any insights might help push the hunt forward.

P.S. Besides the Vignere cipher that Jefferson re-invented and asked Lewis to use, Jefferson also made a wheel cipher. Kind of interesting what that guy did with his free time.
Reply
04-22-2016, 12:26 AM,
#6
RE: Two code type things
(04-22-2016, 12:17 AM)Chmaanta Wrote: P.S. Besides the Vignere cipher that Jefferson re-invented and asked Lewis to use, Jefferson also made a wheel cipher. Kind of interesting what that guy did with his free time.

Though I don't feel ciphers are a part of this anymore, I must say, after all the research I have done for this chase, I definitely have a new appreciation for how intelligent Thomas Jefferson and bad-ass Crazy Horse were that I would have never known without doing it.
Reply
04-22-2016, 12:32 AM,
#7
RE: Two code type things
(04-22-2016, 12:26 AM)minotaur_moreno Wrote:
(04-22-2016, 12:17 AM)Chmaanta Wrote: P.S. Besides the Vignere cipher that Jefferson re-invented and asked Lewis to use, Jefferson also made a wheel cipher. Kind of interesting what that guy did with his free time.

Though I don't feel ciphers are a part of this anymore, I must say, after all the research I have done for this chase, I definitely have a new appreciation for how intelligent Thomas Jefferson and bad-ass Crazy Horse were that I would have never known without doing it.

Sally could probably tell you a little about Jeff's free time. He did give me a full measure of liberty though so there's that.
Reply
04-22-2016, 12:32 AM,
#8
RE: Two code type things
[/quote]

With that example, it has been pointed out that the 20th letter of each line (stanza 1) gives

HORN

They are part of his website dedign.
.
[/quote]


Other vertical words using the same logic as "HORN" are "Beat Oaf", "dad", "hit", "kin", "ten", "has odd", "tone", "lee", "way", "crop", "fen dad", "is me", and "ant" among others. You can spell "frog" if you wrap around on the 7th column. As always, it's hard to say that there is definitely something or it's just a coincidence.
Reply
04-22-2016, 12:37 AM,
#9
RE: Two code type things
(04-22-2016, 12:17 AM)Chmaanta Wrote: I simply put the poem in Excel, one letter per cell. Then I moved columns of letters up and down to spell out different words. I would be happy to post pictures of many things, but I would have to install the app and that's not interesting to me.

Additional things I could spell were "John H.I. Morse", the commander of his rescue mission. You can find "Lillie Fenn" both directions, but "William Fenn" is only found if spelled backwards. "Earhart" is found both directions, but "Amelia Earhart" can only be found backwards. "Meriwether Lewis" can be found backwards. Names that I was looking for, but could not find are "Jamerson, Maples, Orville Wright, Lindbergh, Skippy, June, and Peggy".

Examples of words that could lead you to think you're onto something are "Ans. Key" in the first six columns when you spell "Reese AFB" (in Lubbock) backwards. Spelling Meriwether Lewis gives you words such as "saying", "lives", and "nest" and that's with trying just one combination of letters within the columns that have multiple options. So it's easy to see why even if this was "real" that you would need to know how to turn the wheels to the right locations and which parts of the wheel to read off and in what order.

My ultimate goal is to provide insight as clearly as possible with no ambiguity. Collaboration would be great, as any insights might help push the hunt forward.

P.S. Besides the Vignere cipher that Jefferson re-invented and asked Lewis to use, Jefferson also made a wheel cipher. Kind of interesting what that guy did with his free time.

Oh you and Astree are going be bff's. Try and keep it over on the c&c playground.
Reply
04-22-2016, 01:48 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-22-2016, 01:54 AM by ThrillChaser.)
#10
RE: Two code type things
(04-22-2016, 12:17 AM)Chmaanta Wrote: I simply put the poem in Excel, one letter per cell. Then I moved columns of letters up and down to spell out different words. I would be happy to post pictures of many things, but I would have to install the app and that's not interesting to me.

Additional things I could spell were "John H.I. Morse", the commander of his rescue mission. You can find "Lillie Fenn" both directions, but "William Fenn" is only found if spelled backwards. "Earhart" is found both directions, but "Amelia Earhart" can only be found backwards. "Meriwether Lewis" can be found backwards. Names that I was looking for, but could not find are "Jamerson, Maples, Orville Wright, Lindbergh, Skippy, June, and Peggy".

Examples of words that could lead you to think you're onto something are "Ans. Key" in the first six columns when you spell "Reese AFB" (in Lubbock) backwards. Spelling Meriwether Lewis gives you words such as "saying", "lives", and "nest" and that's with trying just one combination of letters within the columns that have multiple options. So it's easy to see why even if this was "real" that you would need to know how to turn the wheels to the right locations and which parts of the wheel to read off and in what order.

My ultimate goal is to provide insight as clearly as possible with no ambiguity. Collaboration would be great, as any insights might help push the hunt forward.

P.S. Besides the Vignere cipher that Jefferson re-invented and asked Lewis to use, Jefferson also made a wheel cipher. Kind of interesting what that guy did with his free time.

Other vertical words using the same logic as "HORN" are "Beat Oaf", "dad", "hit", "kin", "ten", "has odd", "tone", "lee", "way", "crop", "fen dad", "is me", and "ant" among others. You can spell "frog" if you wrap around on the 7th column. As always, it's hard to say that there is definitely something or it's just a coincidence.

Thanks for those additional details. I don't consider 3 or 4 letter words in isolation (without a lot of other corroborating 3 or 4 letter words) particularly interesting, but that's just my intuition, I haven't done the math.

I did do some simple letter frequency analysis of the poem, which I think is directly related to the work you're doing, I'll share the table here:

'p' : 6 0.99668 1.9290 0.51668
's' : 24 3.9867 6.3270 0.63011
'c' : 12 1.9934 2.7820 0.71653
'm' : 11 1.8272 2.4060 0.75943
'h' : 31 5.1495 6.0940 0.84501
'i' : 36 5.9801 6.9660 0.85847
'f' : 12 1.9934 2.2280 0.89470
'g' : 11 1.8272 2.0150 0.90680
't' : 53 8.8040 9.0560 0.97217
'a' : 49 8.1395 8.1670 0.99663
'r' : 36 5.9801 5.9870 0.99885
'n' : 41 6.8106 6.7490 1.0091
'u' : 17 2.8239 2.7580 1.0239
'e' : 82 13.621 12.702 1.0724
'd' : 28 4.6512 4.2530 1.0936
'o' : 50 8.3056 7.5070 1.1064
'l' : 27 4.4850 4.0250 1.1143
'b' : 11 1.8272 1.4920 1.2247
'y' : 15 2.4917 1.9740 1.2623
'w' : 23 3.8206 2.3600 1.6189
'v' : 10 1.6611 0.97800 1.6985
'j' : 2 0.33223 0.15300 2.1714 +++
'k' : 11 1.8272 0.77200 2.3668 +++
'q' : 2 0.33223 0.095000 3.4972 +++
'z' : 2 0.33223 0.034000 9.7715 +++
Total: 602, Vowels: 38%

The table row values are "letter", "count", "actual frequency (as %)", "expected frequency (as %, in standard English)", "difference (as multiplier)".

For example, first row: There are 6 letter 'p' in the poem, constituting just under 1% (about 1 in 100) of total letters in the poem. The letter 'p' constitutes 1.9% (about 1 in 50) of letters in standard English. Thus only just over half (51%) of the expected frequency of letter 'p' were present in the poem.

Last row: There are 2 letter 'z' in the poem, constituting .33% (one third of one percent, or about 1 in 300) of total letters. The letter 'z' constitutes .03% (three one hundredths of one percent, or about 1 in 3000) of letters in standard English. Thus there are nearly 10x more 'z' present than expected. That might sound funny, but we expect to see (602 / 3400) = .17 or less than one fifth of a 'z' in the poem, but we find two.

Armed with this information, I would suggest you look for relevant words that contain 'z', 'q', 'k', and 'j', as they are the outliers that more that 2x exceed expected letter frequency. Presumably there is a reason for that, or was it just coincidental?
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