THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS

[Razorback]

fundamental design: "There could be a few more aberrations that don't actually have a connection to a place in the Rocky Mountains. For example, the supposed blunder with For Whom a the Bell Tolls."

I think this aberration IS a clue to a specific place in the Rocky Mountains. When you read the book (FWTBT), I think you find many confirmers in it that tell you that are reading the correct book. And, the book gives you the state and the general area where the nine clues are hinting about.
However, this aberration is only one of many clues which are in TTOTC, not counting the poem. And the many clues, when applied to the nine clues in the poem get you to a very small region in the state.
My particular problem, for what it's worth, is that apparently I haven't found all the clues that are sprinkled in TTOTC, because, my solution doesn't get me to within a few steps of the chest, or at least I don't think it does. So, I keep reading and thinking and hoping I
get a better solution. And for those Army Rangers out there, yes I know, "Hope is not a method."

[Mindy]

Is this confirmed by Fenn? Or is it personal/popular opinion? Not saying there are or aren't hints for wwwh just wondering what you're basing this on. Usually people cite at least one unarguably factual source that supports their claim. Without anything that's 100% concrete to support the claim it's nothing more than an opinion. Basing the belief that there's a hint to wwwh in the book or elsewhere based on a personal/popular interpretation of statements or based on personal/popular thought that leads one to interpret wwwh any certain way due to perceived but unconfirmed hint(s) is confirmation bias.

The closest he's come to addressing this, as far as I'm aware, was posted earlier by The Count. But, Fenn'ss answer doesn't confirm that there's a hint to wwwh anywhere in the book. Just that there's hints in the book.

I'd like to know what, exactly, you're basing the above quoted statement on? If it's based on fact that's great and it would be greatly appreciated if you shared the fact(s).

Just basing it on logic. We have to take into account what f tells us what a clue does for a searcher and what a hint does for us. They are different. A clue gets one closer to the tc. A hint helps with the clues. I paraphrased that as I don't readily know where f's quote of those descriptions are.

And then we recently had f's lost words on what the first clue is...wwwh. Lastly, the clues are consecutive. Use logic and you see what I said. A hint in ttotc can't get you closer to the tc than the first clue (wwwh). ***If a hint did get one closer, then by f's definition it can't be a hint...it's a clue***. Same thing if there's a hint in the poem like the first stanza. The first stanza literally has the word "hint" in it. "Begin" in the second stanza has been proven by f to mean begin.

In short, if we know where the first clue is and the clues are consecutive then any hint can't help after clue 1. Hints have to help before then.

Then you should quit now. Where in the OP did I say anything about confirming any hint?

I see what you're saying but it's based on "reasoning" that leads to the following false conclusion:

Premises:
A.) A clue gets one closer to the treasure
B.) A hint helps solve the clues
C.) The first clue is wwwh
D.) The clues are consecutive

Conclusion: a hint can't get you closer to the treasure than the first clue. (Therefore, all hints lead to wwwh?)

That's a false conclusion who's only purpose is to serve a personal (biased) viewpoint. There's no logical way to deduce from the provided premises your conclusion. Let's use the following statement and logic prove your reasoning, on this particular quote, to be faulty:

Forrest Fenn: An Interview
By Holly Johnson - July 8, 2013
https://clubthrifty.com/forrest-fenn-an-interview

Holly: What tips do you have for those wanting to find the treasure?

Forrest: Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.

and

Forrest Fenn at Moby Dickens Book Shop | Taos, NM | 11.02.2013
By A Gypsy's Kiss - June 1, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RzrIu3h...k&index=10

@34:41
There are nine clues in the poem but if you read the book, uh, there are a couple. There are a couple of good hints, and then there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.

Premises:
A.) There's at least four hints
B.) There's nine clues
C.) Hints will help solve the clues <----plural

Conclusion: More than one clue has a hint associated with it that could help solve it. Therefore hints extend beyond the first clue. Therefore with a total of nine clues and a couple hints plus a couple more hints the first clue "could be" one of the clues that are hinted at. (Doesn't insinuate that the first clue has to be hinted at)

Anyways, was just trying to see if your original quoted post was based on opinion or if you knew something I didn't. I see now that it was opinion. Was hoping you had a quote I never saw/heard.

I don't agree with how you boiled everything down to it having to be multiple clues that hints help with just because f said clues plural. My claim still stands. If all the hints help solve the correct wwwh then they can still be considered to help with the clues. That's because they got you on the correct clue path. Simple!

And while we're at it can you show us how a hint can help a later clue. I mean, no one yet has been able to show or tell specifically how that would work. You can describe one that you think isn't even a real hint. I'm just trying to understand the mindset of what it means for a hint to help a clue later on in the poem. Can anybody do this..:.

Cause I've already written about my hints numerous times. Some in this thread have seen and responded to my posts about that. So, the one asking me to show mine and saying I'm doing a short cut cause I can't solve the clues in the poem ought to do better research.

---

In general incredible solves by leading searchers have been stopped by mere ants, so let's just say anything is possible, right? Absolutes are useless , imo.


Kpro

Email: kpro3@aol.com

You must have missed the incredible collection of beads and such from "ANT HILLS" that are in f's collection at his home. I got a great picture of that if you want to see. I think you painted yourself into another corner. You still got it wrong, it wasn't part of our solve. Lol

Thanks for offering to share the pictures but I will decline. My inbox is already full with some emails already sent recently that are much more interesting regarding all of that. since it does not shed a good light on those searchers, I will decline getting more worthless (except for drama) Info on this subject. Again, thanks though, good luck in your search.


Kpro

Email: kpro3@aol.com

They may be interesting, but unless those emails came from F (and I'm 99.999999% sure they didn't), they are meaningless, and most likely, wrong. Only four people know anything about that day, and only two are searchers. And those two searchers are me and FD.

---

[/quote]

You must have missed the incredible collection of beads and such from "ANT HILLS" that are in f's collection at his home. I got a great picture of that if you want to see. I think you painted yourself into another corner. You still got it wrong, it wasn't part of our solve. Lol
[/quote]


Thanks for offering to share the pictures but I will decline. My inbox is already full with some emails already sent recently that are much more interesting regarding all of that. since it does not shed a good light on those searchers, I will decline getting more worthless (except for drama) Info on this subject. Again, thanks though, good luck in your search.


Kpro

Email: kpro3@aol.com
[/quote]

And why would you want info on that in the first place? When you say your inbox is "FULL," you mean LOTS of people are sending you emails on the subject of our visit with F?

Really???

And it seems like you take satisfaction in these emails not shedding a good light on these searchers. Really??

I'm so curious to know what the psychics have SPECULATED about our visit...and how would they know whether it makes us look good or not.

Every sentence you type speaks volumes, kpro. And the light it sheds on YOU is not good.

---

I will only quote the statement made about me on this thread: childish, fixated, "your words are stupid ", "typing stupid stuff".

I know that njfl was called a "n-job". I hate to think what the n stood for In That statement. Don't know her enough or the background between those hurling things at her to know what the n stands for.


Kpro

Email: kpro3@aol.com

Putting quotes around "your words are stupid," is inaccurate.

[fundamental design]

fundamental design: "There could be a few more aberrations that don't actually have a connection to a place in the Rocky Mountains. For example, the supposed blunder with For Whom a the Bell Tolls."

I think this aberration IS a clue to a specific place in the Rocky Mountains. When you read the book (FWTBT), I think you find many confirmers in it that tell you that are reading the correct book. And, the book gives you the state and the general area where the nine clues are hinting about.
However, this aberration is only one of many clues which are in TTOTC, not counting the poem. And the many clues, when applied to the nine clues in the poem get you to a very small region in the state.
My particular problem, for what it's worth, is that apparently I haven't found all the clues that are sprinkled in TTOTC, because, my solution doesn't get me to within a few steps of the chest, or at least I don't think it does. So, I keep reading and thinking and hoping I
get a better solution. And for those Army Rangers out there, yes I know, "Hope is not a method."

Could be about reading FWTBT. I haven't read that book in many years so that would be interesting to see what you see.

---

__________________________________________________________________

And everyone shouldn't confuse robust discussion on this thread with arguing. Like old drum said robust discussion is allowed and I actually encourage it. Many questions or angles about hints vs clues will come up and I think I've done a good job of answering most every thing brought up by others. I have no problem with us challenging each other's take on how the hints will help with the clues because that's when a small detail or two shows up that sheds a new light.

---

Fundy, back on topic...hints...You posted back on post #15:
Just basing it on logic. We have to take into account what f tells us what a clue does for a searcher and what a hint does for us. They are different. A clue gets one closer to the tc. A hint helps with the clues. I paraphrased that as I don't readily know where f's quote of those descriptions are.

And then we recently had f's lost words on what the first clue is...wwwh. Lastly, the clues are consecutive. Use logic and you see what I said. A hint in ttotc can't get you closer to the tc than the first clue (wwwh). ***If a hint did get one closer, then by f's definition it can't be a hint...it's a clue***. Same thing if there's a hint in the poem like the first stanza. The first stanza literally has the word "hint" in it. "Begin" in the second stanza has been proven by f to mean begin.

In short, if we know where the first clue is and the clues are consecutive then any hint can't help after clue 1. Hints have to help before then.

It took me a minute to realize you were basically referring to hints in the poem with your last statements...Since hints are supposed to help with the clues, I understand that to indicate that the hints can help understand what the clues might mean...I see it as hints could be anywhere and help with deciphering what any clue might mean...

Maybe, maybe not, but here's an example I've run across in TFTW which to me sounds reasonable in understanding what some words in the poem COULD mean...F did say there were a couple of clues/hints in his new book as well...Not the unintended clue about Canada, but others...It's from the Preface to TFTW, and one discussed by searchers but in a different context than what is discussed normally...

To start; the very title of f's book is borrowed...Too Far To Walk is a novel by John Hersey published in the 1960's(1962 I think) and about a sluggish college student who wonders if going to his classes is just too far to walk, is it worth it or should he just stay where he is and not bother going...

Many searchers think the hint in f's book is about the distance of 10 miles he floated and waded on a 3 day trip fishing and enjoying the solitude...This 10 miles has been latched onto and used as the distance from WWWH to hoB, etc...What if the distance of 10 miles is not the hint?...What if the hint is the context in which the words 'too far to walk' are used by f? That it's a trip he just won't take now, he just won't go.
From TFTW: "...and I promised myself that someday I would make the trip again. That day never came for me, and my disappointment still casts a lonesome shadow across the Madison River. For me now, it's just too far to walk."

Is this the hint to understanding the words in the poem? Both the context of the words in Hersey's novel and f's book are basically the same - not going to go. It seems reasonable to think that "too far to walk" really has nothing to do with a distance of 10 miles but indicate that one is just not going anywhere, but staying where they are.

Helping decide what a clue might mean using context of two different authors and not a stated distance of "about ten miles" which may just be incidental to a three day float trip down the Madison to Baker's hole...

Is this the type of hint stuff you're interested in?

I do like that you found that the title Too Far Too Walk is also the title of a previous novel which I didn't know. So that's really good and isn't subjective. It's interesting that you see the message of not going to go (anywhere).

About you saying "I see it as hints could be anywhere and help with deciphering what any clue might mean". I still go back to a few thoughts...

1. Does another hint help reinforce this same hint so that would give one more confidence that it is actually a hint? I understand that this approach isn't set in stone but looking at all of f's statements that you have to nail down the first clue leads to this reasoning.

2. Why do we need hints to help us after the first clue? Take f's words that are stated right before the poem in the book..."So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure." That seems like the instruction needed to find the tc and it means what it says- follow the nine clues precisely. This is where I'm just adding my take on that which could be wrong. It doesn't mention to follow some of the clues and then find a hint to apply to the next clue. F writes right after the poem that there are a few clues sprinkled in the stories (paraphrased). So I still don't understand why I would want or need a hint to a clue that comes after the first clue. It all seems to hinge off of the correct first clue and not based on hints helping later clues. If you have the first clue nailed and the clues get easier, again, why would we need further hints? You would just need the following clues, imo.

3. Lastly, I don't want to act like I know how your solve plays out and we don't need more details of it but it sounds like your saying the hint you found tells you to go no further early in the clue path. I've never considered that and I'm not sure how that aligns with f's follow the clues precisely statement.

[Mindy]

I see what you're saying but it's based on "reasoning" that leads to the following false conclusion:

Premises:
A.) A clue gets one closer to the treasure
B.) A hint helps solve the clues
C.) The first clue is wwwh
D.) The clues are consecutive

Conclusion: a hint can't get you closer to the treasure than the first clue. (Therefore, all hints lead to wwwh?)

That's a false conclusion who's only purpose is to serve a personal (biased) viewpoint. There's no logical way to deduce from the provided premises your conclusion. Let's use the following statement and logic prove your reasoning, on this particular quote, to be faulty:

Forrest Fenn: An Interview
By Holly Johnson - July 8, 2013
https://clubthrifty.com/forrest-fenn-an-interview

Holly: What tips do you have for those wanting to find the treasure?

Forrest: Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.

and

Forrest Fenn at Moby Dickens Book Shop | Taos, NM | 11.02.2013
By A Gypsy's Kiss - June 1, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RzrIu3h...k&index=10

@34:41
There are nine clues in the poem but if you read the book, uh, there are a couple. There are a couple of good hints, and then there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.

Premises:
A.) There's at least four hints
B.) There's nine clues
C.) Hints will help solve the clues <----plural

Conclusion: More than one clue has a hint associated with it that could help solve it. Therefore hints extend beyond the first clue. Therefore with a total of nine clues and a couple hints plus a couple more hints the first clue "could be" one of the clues that are hinted at. (Doesn't insinuate that the first clue has to be hinted at)

Anyways, was just trying to see if your original quoted post was based on opinion or if you knew something I didn't. I see now that it was opinion. Was hoping you had a quote I never saw/heard.

I don't agree with how you boiled everything down to it having to be multiple clues that hints help with just because f said clues plural. My claim still stands. If all the hints help solve the correct wwwh then they can still be considered to help with the clues. That's because they got you on the correct clue path. Simple!

And while we're at it can you show us how a hint can help a later clue. I mean, no one yet has been able to show or tell specifically how that would work. You can describe one that you think isn't even a real hint. I'm just trying to understand the mindset of what it means for a hint to help a clue later on in the poem. Can anybody do this..:.

Cause I've already written about my hints numerous times. Some in this thread have seen and responded to my posts about that. So, the one asking me to show mine and saying I'm doing a short cut cause I can't solve the clues in the poem ought to do better research.

---

In general incredible solves by leading searchers have been stopped by mere ants, so let's just say anything is possible, right? Absolutes are useless , imo.


Kpro

Email: kpro3@aol.com

You must have missed the incredible collection of beads and such from "ANT HILLS" that are in f's collection at his home. I got a great picture of that if you want to see. I think you painted yourself into another corner. You still got it wrong, it wasn't part of our solve. Lol

Thanks for offering to share the pictures but I will decline. My inbox is already full with some emails already sent recently that are much more interesting regarding all of that. since it does not shed a good light on those searchers, I will decline getting more worthless (except for drama) Info on this subject. Again, thanks though, good luck in your search.


Kpro

Email: kpro3@aol.com

They may be interesting, but unless those emails came from F (and I'm 99.999999% sure they didn't), they are meaningless, and most likely, wrong. Only four people know anything about that day, and only two are searchers. And those two searchers are me and FD.

---

You must have missed the incredible collection of beads and such from "ANT HILLS" that are in f's collection at his home. I got a great picture of that if you want to see. I think you painted yourself into another corner. You still got it wrong, it wasn't part of our solve. Lol

Thanks for offering to share the pictures but I will decline. My inbox is already full with some emails already sent recently that are much more interesting regarding all of that. since it does not shed a good light on those searchers, I will decline getting more worthless (except for drama) Info on this subject. Again, thanks though, good luck in your search.


Kpro

Email: kpro3@aol.com
[/quote]

And why would you want info on that in the first place? When you say your inbox is "FULL," you mean LOTS of people are sending you emails on the subject of our visit with F?

Really???

And it seems like you take satisfaction in these emails not shedding a good light on these searchers. Really??

I'm so curious to know what the psychics have SPECULATED about our visit...and how would they know whether it makes us look good or not.

Every sentence you type speaks volumes, kpro. And the light it sheds on YOU is not good.

---

I will only quote the statement made about me on this thread: childish, fixated, "your words are stupid ", "typing stupid stuff".

I know that njfl was called a "n-job". I hate to think what the n stood for In That statement. Don't know her enough or the background between those hurling things at her to know what the n stands for.


Kpro

Email: kpro3@aol.com

Putting quotes around "your words are stupid," is inaccurate.
[/quote]

This post is off topic.
[/quote]


No, it was in response to kpro's off topic post. According to kpro (and I agree), a person should be able to defend themselves against misrepresentation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fundamental design]

Excellent advice from f, CF.

I was thinking more about the too far too walk hint that timebandit brought up. One thing that came up was that one would need to have read that earlier novel and come up with the theme that timebandit did to be able to solve the too far too walk clue. It would be my guess that f wouldn't make his poem of clues make us do that.

There's a slight difference to that approach and the approach I've been describing. For example, about the book The Outlaw Trail that was brought up... if there's a hint associated with that rabbit hole it doesn't preclude you from solving clue one or any later clue once clue one is solved. It would just slow you down in your ability to solve the all important first clue if you didn't solve the hint (cause there's multiple hints to this clue, imo). It's a small difference but I think it brings with it a big impact in the big picture.

[OjoDude]

If any of us actually knew anything with any certainty, this wouldn't be up for debate.

[fundamental design]

If any of us actually knew anything with any certainty, this wouldn't be up for debate.

Of course.

[Itchy Ideas]

And why would you want info on that in the first place? When you say your inbox is "FULL," you mean LOTS of people are sending you emails on the subject of our visit with F?

Really???

And it seems like you take satisfaction in these emails not shedding a good light on these searchers. Really??

I'm so curious to know what the psychics have SPECULATED about our visit...and how would they know whether it makes us look good or not.

Every sentence you type speaks volumes, kpro. And the light it sheds on YOU is not good.

*Face palm*

Mindy,

Kpro did not say anything about her inbox being full of Mindy "stuff". You just assumed it was. She is saying that the conversations she is having with other people is more interesting than ant hills. (What ever that is about)

I can say that I have maybe 8-12 PM with Kpro in the last 2 months. None of them regard you or gossip about any other searchers.

Again, why do I keep observing drama on this forum regarding something no one knows about?
No one really reads drama on the other forum regarding FD. So why is that mentioned?
If no one knows about whatever that ant Hill thing is, except for you and FD (who live together and can discuss it in person), why are we reading about it?

They may be interesting, but unless those emails came from F (and I'm 99.999999% sure they didn't), they are meaningless, and most likely, wrong. Only four people know anything about that day, and only two are searchers. And those two searchers are me and FD.

Also, claiming what others are emailing/PMing about is not as important as your ant thing doesn't seem very Mindy-like. Kind of rude. In my opinion of course

[Mindy]

And why would you want info on that in the first place? When you say your inbox is "FULL," you mean LOTS of people are sending you emails on the subject of our visit with F?

Really???

And it seems like you take satisfaction in these emails not shedding a good light on these searchers. Really??

I'm so curious to know what the psychics have SPECULATED about our visit...and how would they know whether it makes us look good or not.

Every sentence you type speaks volumes, kpro. And the light it sheds on YOU is not good.

*Face palm*

Mindy,

Kpro did not say anything about her inbox being full of Mindy "stuff". You just assumed it was. She is saying that the conversations she is having with other people is more interesting than ant hills. (What ever that is about)

I can say that I have maybe 8-12 PM with Kpro in the last 2 months. None of them regard you or gossip about any other searchers.

Again, why do I keep observing drama on this forum regarding something no one knows about?
No one really reads drama on the other forum regarding FD. So why is that mentioned?
If no one knows about whatever that ant Hill thing is, except for you and FD (who live together and can discuss it in person), why are we reading about it?

They may be interesting, but unless those emails came from F (and I'm 99.999999% sure they didn't), they are meaningless, and most likely, wrong. Only four people know anything about that day, and only two are searchers. And those two searchers are me and FD.

Also, claiming what others are emailing/PMing about is not as important as your ant thing doesn't seem very Mindy-like. Kind of rude. In my opinion of course

Itchy,
When she said "regarding that topic," what was she talking about?
I read it as she had an inbox full of emails regarding the topic of our visit, which put me in a poor light. I don't know how else that can be interpreted.
I think I've made my point, so I won't say anything else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Itchy Ideas]

And why would you want info on that in the first place? When you say your inbox is "FULL," you mean LOTS of people are sending you emails on the subject of our visit with F?

Really???

And it seems like you take satisfaction in these emails not shedding a good light on these searchers. Really??

I'm so curious to know what the psychics have SPECULATED about our visit...and how would they know whether it makes us look good or not.

Every sentence you type speaks volumes, kpro. And the light it sheds on YOU is not good.

*Face palm*

Mindy,

Kpro did not say anything about her inbox being full of Mindy "stuff". You just assumed it was. She is saying that the conversations she is having with other people is more interesting than ant hills. (What ever that is about)

I can say that I have maybe 8-12 PM with Kpro in the last 2 months. None of them regard you or gossip about any other searchers.

Again, why do I keep observing drama on this forum regarding something no one knows about?
No one really reads drama on the other forum regarding FD. So why is that mentioned?
If no one knows about whatever that ant Hill thing is, except for you and FD (who live together and can discuss it in person), why are we reading about it?

They may be interesting, but unless those emails came from F (and I'm 99.999999% sure they didn't), they are meaningless, and most likely, wrong. Only four people know anything about that day, and only two are searchers. And those two searchers are me and FD.

Also, claiming what others are emailing/PMing about is not as important as your ant thing doesn't seem very Mindy-like. Kind of rude. In my opinion of course

Itchy,
When she said "regarding that topic," what was she talking about?
I read it as she had an inbox full of emails regarding the topic of our visit, which put me in a poor light. I don't know how else that can be interpreted.
I think I've made my point, so I won't say anything else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who on Earth can fill up their PM box with discussion about ant hills???? It doesn't sound interesting. Also, no one knows anything about it , right? So there's no substance... There's no information to even discuss.