THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS

[fundamental design]

Timebandit, good stuff. I've been rooting for you for along time. One little aspect I wanted to add is that i have been thinking that if hints exist to help with the first clue I don't mean they point out directly the wwwh like you couldn't find. Just that they point to a specific area which then gets further refined by the first clue and so on. Yep, a work in progress. I wish you well in your journey and enjoy your thinking.

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fd I believe that you should prostrate yourself before the entire chase world and beg for forgiveness. You spent the last 4 years preaching to anyone who would listen that stanza 1 is the most important. Well we all now know what clue one is and any credibility you ever had is gone. Maybe ff told us what the first clue is because he was pissed you were leading so many people astray. Hate to say I told you so but I've been biting my tongue for too long now. Stanza one people............yikes.........sad.

Let's review what Chris Yates had to say on the subject here as he says always says it more elegantly than me except when he doesn't capitalize letters or that punctuation thing. Pretty reasonable stuff...after you read it then see how you feel.

imo, he is saying that there is a way to logically deduce what is the one wwwh that the poem is referring to

f spent years working on this, and thought about this, and he knew that he was writing a poem that could be seen to have many different meanings. and he knew that to make the poem logically solvable to one spot, the foundation of the first clue would need to be in place, such that it could only logically be one place, if you crack that particular clue

how else would you do it? unless one thinks he spent 15 years for this to be just a guessing game, and the treasure to be essentially unfindable

if you dont have the first clue, and understand what that means and how it brings you to the right general area, forget about it. keep working on it, until you do

but if you do have it, other clues can begin to be narrowed down. and if you see otter creek in the poem, and there is one otter creek in that area, well now you can begin the process of marrying clues to the map and proceeding further in the puzzle

but thats really putting the horse before the cart

and so, how do you logically put in hints to the right general area. hints at the first clue. something that would isolate it from all the other incorrect areas

i first thought about this a few years back, and i concluded there are a few ways. not too many.

imo, f used all of them in the poem. all the ones i could think of, anyway

there is one, imo, that stands above the others. and the entire poem is used to repeat the same information. multiple times in multiple layers

and it was all put there, to confirm the correct starting general area, imo

think about something that would identify a particular area, such that it could only be that area, and not be interpreted different ways

but that wouldnt be enough, because you need to know that what you are seeing is a clue and the way in which you are interpreting it is correct

so the same information, unique to that one area, would need to be repeated, and given using various methods, but ultimately repeating the same information

and it would need to be seen in the poem from beginning to end

there are only a few pieces of info i think would work. that would qualify logically

people talk about them sometimes, but not very often, to be honest

it seems that people generally think that they wouldn't be significant, or for some reason they have personal unsupported bias that f wouldn't use these things as clues

even though they would be perfectly logical, and would in fact, narrow down to only one area

it's kinda wierd, but i think if i asked most searchers if they believe f wrote the poem so that it could logically be solved, they would say yes

and yet, their approach to solving the poem is like they don't really believe that

it is underestimating Fenn. underestimating that he did actually put in specific and logical clues that will positively identify

i think that if you continually approach the poem such that your approach could be used in many different places and make sense, it will start to confuse your mind. and it could make you start to think that your approach is the right one, if only you can just finally, and luckily, apply it to the right place.

but this isn't logical. and Fenn is very logical. more than most people realize.

[Buddy Allen]

Here's your choices

1. Figure out wwwh, or

2. Play canasta

[fundamental design]

Here's your choices

1. Figure out wwwh, or

2. Play canasta

You are proving my point for me.

[Buddy Allen]

Sorry, the CY post is the perfect proof, this entire thread is verbose nonsense. You tried to get everyone to waste time on stanza one and now you are trying to do it on hints. Buyer beware.

[timebandit]

fd I believe that you should prostrate yourself before the entire chase world and beg for forgiveness. You spent the last 4 years preaching to anyone who would listen that stanza 1 is the most important. Well we all now know what clue one is and any credibility you ever had is gone. Maybe ff told us what the first clue is because he was pissed you were leading so many people astray. Hate to say I told you so but I've been biting my tongue for too long now. Stanza one people............yikes.........sad.

The interview where Fenn said WWWH was the first clue came out in 2013...
Maybe none of us were listening good lol wonder why its stayed under the radar from the masses for so long?

The Count...It could be that the radio broadcasts from NZ are not intended for and not normally listened to by folks in the US of A. I consider the fact that it was found after 4 years and made public a very fortunate stroke of luck indeed for those involved in the chase.

And as far as Buddy's comment to Fundy goes...I won't say the 1st stanza is the most important stanza in the poem, BUT...I will state with a very high degree of certainty that if one does not figure out from the get-go what is in stanza 1 and what it means, you WILL NOT find the meaning of the 1st clue nor understand what you are being told to do...That's because "...it..." is not your 'search', nor your 'quest', nor your 'journey'...

Stanza 1 does contain vital information in that respect, so Fundy isn't entirely wrong about hints nor does he need forgiveness for expounding his views or ideas on CC...That would apply to every Tom, Dick, or Harry that has ever posted here, even the nut cases...Except for blatant vulgarity of course...

Whether anyone believes me or not is irrelevant, it simply means our paths will never cross in the field.

[fundamental design]

^ Spoken like a true gentleman and a scholar.

[Mindy]

Here's my current thoughts on hints.

I believe the clues are "kennings."

Those are the phrases where you have "and" between two phrases without commas.

"Heavy loads and water high" = Washington.

Subtle hints in the book(s), scrapbooks, etc would be the Washington painting, the frequent mentions of laundry and how much wet laundry weighs.

In TFTW, he said something in a caption like "when I was young, the heavy laundry wasn't a problem, but it would kill me now."

There are a few places he mentions loads of laundry.

You could also make a case for Queen's Laundry geyser being heavy loads and water high.

But kennings is, in my opinion, the way to decipher the clues in the poem.

And the hints in the book help you with the kennings.


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[trigace]

If anyone is interested in a little different viewpoint from all that has been discussed on this thread, here it is, like it or not:

I think the reason Fenn gave hints was twofold, just as Fenn's overall reason for hiding the chest was twofold:

He hid the chest foremost, I think, to demonstrate his adeptness at using words (called clues) in a clever way, to lead us along a "correct" path while at the same time being deceptive in leading us along multiple "uncorrect" paths. His secondary reason, as he states, was to get us and our families out into the great outdoors.

Fenn's main reason for giving hints was, again, to demonstrate his adeptness at using words in a clever way by describing the search area through the imagined images he sees on the ground through made up stories or simple descriptive, but deceptive, statements. I think the location of the chest was chosen not because it was emotionally "special" to Fenn but because it had so many images that he could use for his poem and the hints.

His secondary reason for giving hints was to confirm to successful poem solvers that they were searching the correct area and to continue on. He knew that a complete solve would be very difficult so he gave hints to keep us going.

So, we should concentrate first on solving the clues in the poem. But as we do so, we need to be familiar with his words and stories in TTOTC, scrapbooks, interviews, etc. and be able to recognize where they might apply along our search route. But I think that 90% of his hints apply to the final search area of less than a square mile where the last 4 clues are located.

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Stanza 1 is important but you don't need to use it at all until you get to stanza 5, then it is essential.

[fundamental design]

Awesome thoughts, trigrace.

[fundamental design]

Mr. Fundamental, no it is not subjective to know that indeed Mr. Redford was involved in writing "The Outlaw Trail" however, it may be subjective to then believe that that knowledge is somehow key in solving a clue e.g. WWWH.

This is why I feel it is vital to remove all subjectivity by focusing purely on the poem.

It, I must assume refers to your mention of the Redford aberration in "Important Literature" Therefore I once again must say that this assumption of yours, that this aberration must then point to Browns Hole, is very subjective , not that it is wrong, but it is solely based upon an assumption, by you, that it is in fact a subtle hint to the "where" that warm waters halt derives from or in.

Gotcha, Sean! Lol
Take another mystery in ttotc...in the First Grade chapter. John Charles whatever's name pops up. To all the searchers out there, do you believe that name is referring to someone that one can absolutely pin down to be who f is referring to? Or is that subjective?

A reminder, it has already been confirmed by Sean that it is not subjective that Robert Redford has written a book and the title given was The Outlaw Trail.