THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS

[monkeyking]

Hello Forrest,

If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of santa fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest?

Thank you ~Nope
Thank you Nope. Nope. f

Again I agree regarding stanza on containing hints. I am not sure that the questions and answer for FF make this premise definitive. For example, if a similar question were asked of the writer of the Twelve Days of Christmas: Without knowing anything other than the words to the song could someone two hundred years in the future figure out the hidden meanings you placed in the verses? The only correct answer is no. At the very least the future person would have to know that there is hidden meaning. They would also need to know who wrote it.... The way the question was asked of FF he could only answer no. If his poem were published 500 years in the future without any back story, meaning that the reader was not told he buried a treasure box, they would not be able to guess because the poem dosen't say it. Even if they thought it did refer to a hidden treasure without reference to the Rocky Mountains etc. it would not be reasonable for the reader to have any chance of figuring out the clues...

So in the end I think the best logic for determining that stanza one contains hints is that without them you can never be certain of WWWH and without that you have nothing....you just can't jump to HOB... If it is solvable with the poem and a good map then the hint that designates WWWH must be in the poem itself.

[fundamental design]

Yep, I had another episode over on Dal’s which I thought might as well explain here, lol.

So, the discussion was about if the first stanza in the poem includes hidden and critical information to help solve for the first clue or clues in general...depending on your solve. Shocker, I was of the opinion that the first stanza has a hint that helps solve for the correct wwwh. Some others were saying to me why do you discredit that f just talked about the Chase in a straightforward fashion in that stanza and there’s nothing more to it. To them, the first stanza is nothing but an introduction to the Chase/poem. I was like, I never said that f didn’t write it as an introduction but tell me how come you discredit that there could be something more important lurking in there too.

I woke up this morning with this gem, lol...

Hello Forrest,

If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of santa fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest?

Thank you ~Nope
Thank you Nope. Nope. f

F can take this hypothetical scenario and make sure the poem matches the questions’ conditions and then answer. The conditions say no backstory. The searchers who say stanza one is nothing but an introduction or it only talks in detail about f hiding the tc before the Chase started are equating that to some of the backstory of the Chase.

This means that their theory of it’s only part of the backstory dooms them when f answers nope since f had to eliminate all the backstory from his reply. By happenstance, f just also eliminated any potential hint/critical information in that stanza that anyone can use. Remember, the last part of the question is they can only use the rest of the words in the poem. Since f replies that a person can’t reasonably use the rest of the words in the poem to find the tc then, of course, there’s something in stanza 1 that is critical to figure out, like a hint. Because before f has said the (whole) poem is enough to find the tc.

I'm not sure I like this line of reasoning, if I've understood you. You're saying that if the first stanza doesn't contain clues then it is "backstory" and would be ruled out by the conditions of the question? I think "poem" includes all 24 lines no matter if they are clue/hint/or whatever.

That being said, I personally agree with you that there is a clue or so in the first stanza but I don't quite know how to get there, given Forrest's statement that "Begin it where warm waters halt" is the first clue.

His statement about "contiguous" was not about the ordering of the clues. It was about the process of writing the poem and how that resulted in nine clues. In other statements he's said words to the effect that you have to follow the clues consecutively and/or in the right order. That would seem fairly obvious. The question then as to what constitutes the right order becomes important. If "BIWWWH" is the first clue, then what loops you back to the first stanza?

I was more saying that I think the first stanza has a hint in it. The other camp was saying the first stanza just has backstory info in it and nothing else. So my reply to them essentially was why couldn’t f have hidden an important hint in the backstory of stanza one. That’s basically hiding critical information in plain sight and undercover at the same time.

I don’t think there’s a clue in stanza one. I think f defined clues and hints as two separate things. I do realize that he has intermingled the two terms occasionally but I think his later statements on that have separated the two terms by way of f’s definitions for them.

---

Hello Forrest,

If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of santa fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest?

Thank you ~Nope
Thank you Nope. Nope. f

Again I agree regarding stanza on containing hints. I am not sure that the questions and answer for FF make this premise definitive. For example, if a similar question were asked of the writer of the Twelve Days of Christmas: Without knowing anything other than the words to the song could someone two hundred years in the future figure out the hidden meanings you placed in the verses? The only correct answer is no. At the very least the future person would have to know that there is hidden meaning. They would also need to know who wrote it.... The way the question was asked of FF he could only answer no. If his poem were published 500 years in the future without any back story, meaning that the reader was not told he buried a treasure box, they would not be able to guess because the poem dosen't say it. Even if they thought it did refer to a hidden treasure without reference to the Rocky Mountains etc. it would not be reasonable for the reader to have any chance of figuring out the clues...

So in the end I think the best logic for determining that stanza one contains hints is that without them you can never be certain of WWWH and without that you have nothing....you just can't jump to HOB... If it is solvable with the poem and a good map then the hint that designates WWWH must be in the poem itself.

You still need to reconcile that with f’s answer to this question... Will the (whole) poem lead you to the treasure? Yes, if you know where to start.

Which is what f always hinges what the focus should be on when asked. You got to nail down the first clue, biggest mistake is not spending enough time on the first clue, Canasta. I don’t have all the quotes handy right now about that.

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The easy way to look at it is to see that the only difference that f has had to deal with between the two questions is to remove any backstory from the poem for his nope reply. And that only difference has made the poem, that was once sovable and able to lead one to the tc, now unreasonable to just use the words in the poem and find the treasure chest. I’d say that’s proof that the first stanza has a hint in it.

[Mindy]

Yep, I had another episode over on Dal’s which I thought might as well explain here, lol.

So, the discussion was about if the first stanza in the poem includes hidden and critical information to help solve for the first clue or clues in general...depending on your solve. Shocker, I was of the opinion that the first stanza has a hint that helps solve for the correct wwwh. Some others were saying to me why do you discredit that f just talked about the Chase in a straightforward fashion in that stanza and there’s nothing more to it. To them, the first stanza is nothing but an introduction to the Chase/poem. I was like, I never said that f didn’t write it as an introduction but tell me how come you discredit that there could be something more important lurking in there too.

I woke up this morning with this gem, lol...

Hello Forrest,

If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of santa fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest?

Thank you ~Nope
Thank you Nope. Nope. f

F can take this hypothetical scenario and make sure the poem matches the questions’ conditions and then answer. The conditions say no backstory. The searchers who say stanza one is nothing but an introduction or it only talks in detail about f hiding the tc before the Chase started are equating that to some of the backstory of the Chase.

This means that their theory of it’s only part of the backstory dooms them when f answers nope since f had to eliminate all the backstory from his reply. By happenstance, f just also eliminated any potential hint/critical information in that stanza that anyone can use. Remember, the last part of the question is they can only use the rest of the words in the poem. Since f replies that a person can’t reasonably use the rest of the words in the poem to find the tc then, of course, there’s something in stanza 1 that is critical to figure out, like a hint. Because before f has said the (whole) poem is enough to find the tc.

I'm not sure I like this line of reasoning, if I've understood you. You're saying that if the first stanza doesn't contain clues then it is "backstory" and would be ruled out by the conditions of the question? I think "poem" includes all 24 lines no matter if they are clue/hint/or whatever.

That being said, I personally agree with you that there is a clue or so in the first stanza but I don't quite know how to get there, given Forrest's statement that "Begin it where warm waters halt" is the first clue.

His statement about "contiguous" was not about the ordering of the clues. It was about the process of writing the poem and how that resulted in nine clues. In other statements he's said words to the effect that you have to follow the clues consecutively and/or in the right order. That would seem fairly obvious. The question then as to what constitutes the right order becomes important. If "BIWWWH" is the first clue, then what loops you back to the first stanza?

Maybe tenses.

And maybe wwwh is the first clue, but ISN’T where you start.


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[wishiIwasRich]

Mindy you are correct.
Forrest tells "The truth", but not the "Whole truth".

The Truth:
1st clue is BIWWWH, for the directions.

The Whole Truth:
1st clue is 1st sentence, for the poem.

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[fundamental design]

Wanted to relay a searcher discussion that took place recently. It involved a searcher stating he found a hint in ttotc book that f mentions what exactly his hoB is. I replied to him that I would consider that a clue and not a hint. Essentially, he’s stating he found in the book an answer to what we are trying to find from a poem clue, if you feel that hoB is a clue.

He would have none of it. He said since he found it in the book that it can’t be a clue. Then I told him I think you’re missing something. Not everything searchers have found in the Chase have been correct. I explained how ridiculous it would be if I said I found in the book that f mentions his exact blaze that we are all looking for. How could anyone portray that would be just a hint? Baffling.

[Becky from WV]

@fundamental design - Just because some searcher claims to have "found a hint in ttotc book that f mentions what exactly his hoB is" does NOT make it true. FF has told us the hints are in his stories ... the clues are in the poem. I seem to remember that FF also answered some woman on Jenny Kile's blog when she asked him if the clue places are in the book. He told her, " No."

For me, the 1st stanza is only an intro. The last stanza is the finale. No clues in either.

@Mindy - Begin it ... wwwh. Seems clear to me that "Begin" means to start.

[Mindy]

@fundamental design - Just because some searcher claims to have "found a hint in ttotc book that f mentions what exactly his hoB is" does NOT make it true. FF has told us the hints are in his stories ... the clues are in the poem. I seem to remember that FF also answered some woman on Jenny Kile's blog when she asked him if the clue places are in the book. He told her, " No."

For me, the 1st stanza is only an intro. The last stanza is the finale. No clues in either.

@Mindy - Begin it ... wwwh. Seems clear to me that "Begin" means to start.

@Becky — begin is a good starting word...but is it:

BEGIN

Begin IT

Begin it WHERE

BEGIN it WHERE WARM

Begin it WHERE WARM WATERS

Begin it WHERE WARM WATERS HALT

Begin it WHERE WARM WATERS HALT AND TAKE

And, as a thought:

Maybe the second stanza tells you what the first clue is, but that doesn’t necessarily tell you where to START.

Maybe the first stanza tells you where to find the answers to the clues, and the first clue is “Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down...”

Maybe all the “supporting stanzas” tell you how to find the answers to the clue stanzas, and those should also be read and understood BEFORE the first clue can be solved...

In my opinion, this seems like a logical way to solve the poem. The WHOLE poem is important. Without the supporting stanzas, you’re lost in a sea of ambiguity, because there are way too many places where warm waters halt in the Rocky Mountain and probably thousands of homes of Browns— there HAS to be a way to determine the correct ones by interpreting the poem’s instructions precisely.

And in my opinion, the poem tells you where those answers are...

[fundamental design]

@fundamental design - Just because some searcher claims to have "found a hint in ttotc book that f mentions what exactly his hoB is" does NOT make it true...


For me, the 1st stanza is only an intro. The last stanza is the finale. No clues in either.

---

I’m glad someone agrees with what I said.

I don’t think there’s any clues in stanza one either, I believe there’s a hint in it though. That’s two separate things...hints and clues.

___________________________________________________________________

Good stuff, Mindy!!!

[fundamental design]

I'm game, regardless if it is the second clue identifying WWWH will lead to the starting place.
Quotes always help to grasp the idea of what a clue may be. I'll be back to edit my first post with a quote dump when I have time how about we start with these 2 quotes since the book will undoubtedly be involved here.

You have said to read the poem and read TTOTC to help solve for the 9 clues. We all know there are many options to choose from regarding, Brown, hoB, wwh,and blaze hinted at in the book.My question is, “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW
No I don’t madam, sorry. f

How much more likely are hunters to work out where warm waters halt with the aid of TTOTC, compared to without it? (Comment: Posted on Dal's site on 2/27/2017, but interview was from May 2015) You sure ask confounding, but insightful questions. The clues are in the poem, but there are hints in the book.


Often times, in general, you can't take one quote like what the OP stated and leave out other important ones on the same subject like what I posted, it can point to confirmation bias.

In many videos he is asked for a hint or clue and usually Fenn says something similar to this

There are no clues in this book, but there are some hints. What I tell people to do, if you’re really serious about looking for the treasure, get the Thrill of The Chase and read it. And then go back and read the poem over and over and over again. And then go back and read the book again, but slowly looking at every little abstract thing that might catch up in your brain. That might be a hint to help you with the clues.

On the confirmation bias front and the quote you posted...I think it’s pretty easy to justify my position. The hints in the book don’t have to reveal any of those- wwwh, hoB and the blaze to help us narrow down the clues. If the hints in the book narrow down to a specific geographical location just outside the circle of where warm water halt is then that’s not telling the correct answer to any of those listed.

[fundamental design]

For me, the 1st stanza is only an intro. The last stanza is the finale. No clues in either.

@Mindy - Begin it ... wwwh. Seems clear to me that "Begin" means to start.

Becky, would you agree that Fenn is a complicated man? Based on your prior knowledge of the man, and everything you have read about the man, do you really think he would make it that simple?

I know I do. I don’t think when the poem first came out that the biggest mystery in it was that biwwwh was the first clue. I think one of the bigger mysteries is trying to figure out which is the correct wwwh from the host of them.