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THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
06-14-2019, 09:28 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-14-2019, 10:11 AM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Sorry for the long post...

Thought I’d review and comment on the latest Flipside video where they were talking about subjectivity and objectivity in the Chase again. They sure like that subject even though they seem to only scratch the surface of it. Like mostly obvious projections and views from the view of a poem purist. I do think they should bring someone in addition to Decall to help explain how some non poem purists view the topic.

I’ll go over a few things that stood out. Sean brought up early that I recently posted on ChaseChat this “I think one thing poem purists haven’t figured out is many who aren’t poem purists prbly still spend 98-99% of their solving time on the poem.”

Later he repeated it and then said that the small percentage of the solving time by the non poem purists not used on the poem is what trips them up. It gets them so far out of the box, looking into historical figures, or history in general, and leads to naive assumptions that lead you to these rabbit holes.

He says that like every non poem purist does that. Sounds to me like he’s cherry picking some solves he’s read or heard and placing every non poem purist in that same boat. That isn’t being objective. What’s wrong with looking into history? Is that forbidden? Sean already agreed with me before that history is involved emphatically with the Chase. That’s what an objective person would figure out. So, why try to diss it now? I don’t get it.

It’s not like I’m worried about wacky solutions I hear having any chance on interfering with the one, certain process of solving it all. Is he saying that no poem purist’s solve is subjective or one can’t find something weird (subjective) in it? Here’s a challenge. Let’s see some poem purists solves (complete or incomplete) that have been released before or someone wants to step up to the plate. Has there ever been a complete poem purist solve that went public? I’ll do an objective analysis of that solve and post it back to the community. I’ll just look into the objectivity and subjectivity angle of the solve and point out what I find.

I think the poem purists on the show think they are more objective than all non poem purists. I wouldn’t even answer half the questions or topics they brought up on the show because they are subjective. Like when Sean asked their opinion on get back in the box and if that means get back to the poem only or ttotc book in general which includes the poem. It’s subjective...you ain’t ever gonna figure that out so who cares.

Another point Sean was trying to make was that he believes f has changed his advice from years of it being (paraphrased) read the poem very slowly many times then read the book looking for hints that will help you with the clues in the poem. Sean thinks he changed that by more recently advising newcomers to the Chase to read his poem only.

What Sean misses is that it is important to look at adjectives and such around nouns. Just like when Sean points out we need to do that in the poem when they were discussing “warm” in the poem. Decall essentially brought up that he didn’t think synonyms were the best route to go in the poem (subjective rabbit holes) but Sean said f did that with his definition of “warm”...and that surrounding words are needed to be defined for context. Ok, then you are forgetting an important word that f has used to describe his advice about read the poem and then the book to find hints to help the clues. F said that was his “best” advice. Hard to beat his best advice if he doesn’t ever say later something else is his best advice. One’s best advice doesn’t change when you give other advice later on. One can give advice on many levels or topics after giving one’s “best” advice on how to find the treasure and it doesn’t supplant it.

When they immediately got stuck on the subjectivity/objectivity of the word warm in the first clue, it goes to what I’ve been posting for a long time on this thread. The clues are subjective. I believe you ain’t ever gonna figure out where the treasure is by just looking at the clues. I’ve said from OP of this thread that it’s my thinking that the hints in the Chase are what someone can find some piece of objectivity in them. Sean often mischaracterizes that position to mean I only talking about hints in the book. Nope, I’ve repeatedly said hints in the book and poem. I didn’t differentiate the two when I first said it’s the hints.

For example this question:

Dear Forrest,

You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:

a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and

b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail?

Steve No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

The gang on the show did produce the idea that there’s prbly something important in the first stanza of the poem. I agree with that and that’s what I’ve been saying for a long time on this thread and elsewhere. I’ve gone into great detail why, instead of just the obvious opinion, that it’s important.

F says you can’t proceed with confidence with those two clues where wwwh is one of them. You didn’t get to see the rest of the poem. The clues are consecutive. First clue is wwwh. Pretty much means the first stanza is where you get help figuring out wwwh. It has the word “hint” in it. I’d like Sean to read out loud the poem to us with how f defines the word hint for us...

As I’ve gone alone in there
And with my treasures bold
I can keep my secret where
And hint (help us with the clues) of riches new and old

Treasure hunters in the Chase don’t need a synonym for the word hint. It is self explanatory just like the word clue is. They can’t be interchanged though according to f or he wouldn’t have defined them in a different way.

So, is the hint in the first stanza objective or subjective? Is a recipe objective or subjective? If you leave out a few ingredients in a recipe then you are doing some subjective cooking/baking. A recipe is objective, it’s the fault of the one following the recipe if they don’t precisely follow the recipe by missing ingredients. If we need to follow the clues precisely sounds like f is saying we need to follow the hints precisely too. Some will “say sounds like” is subjective. If you say that, then I’ll say I think you want f to hold your hand and take you to the tc himself. You got to figure some things out by yourself and it’s not gonna be an objective route the whole way through the 9 clues. I’m saying the only part of the correct clue path that will have a taste of objectivity will be any of the hints you figure out. The rest just “hinges” on that.


Howdy, Mister.
Reply
06-14-2019, 09:58 AM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
What the ?
Reply
06-14-2019, 10:20 AM,
THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Is art objective or subjective?

Is the poem art? TTOTC art? Is the constitution art? The Mueller report? Is a Rand McNally map art? Which of these have been interpreted in totally opposite ways?

The poem is a map - are the places named Where Warm Waters Halt, No Place For The Meek, Home Of Brown, etc? No, obviously not. A self proclaimed “poem purist” who is somehow able to ignore outside influence to the poem is at a severe disadvantage in the same way as those who cannot interpret art.

Like I said before, the poem doesn’t even tell you which state to start your search any more than a grocery shopping list tells what you’re cooking - even though both contain all the information you need.

Thankfully, there are stupid conversations like that one to keep those guys and their pea brains occupied.


razyfamily
Reply
06-14-2019, 10:43 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-14-2019, 10:43 AM by dude here.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(06-14-2019, 09:28 AM)fundamental design Wrote: Thought I’d review and comment on the latest Flipside video where they were talking about subjectivity and objectivity in the Chase again.

Seanm is irrelevant. He made himself irrelevant by dismissing the hints vital to success. Without those hints, it could take him a thousand years to happen upon the correct solve. He's like that monkey with the typewriter who will eventually reproduce the complete works of Shakespeare.

(06-14-2019, 09:28 AM)fundamental design Wrote: Sean already agreed with me before that history is involved emphatically with the Chase. That’s what an objective person would figure out. So, why try to diss it now? I don’t get it.

There is not much history involved.

(06-14-2019, 09:28 AM)fundamental design Wrote: For example this question:

Dear Forrest,

You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:

a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and

b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail?

Steve No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

The gang on the show did produce the idea that there’s prbly something important in the first stanza of the poem. I agree with that and that’s what I’ve been saying for a long time on this thread and elsewhere. I’ve gone into great detail why, instead of just the obvious opinion, that it’s important.

F says you can’t proceed with confidence with those two clues where wwwh is one of them. You didn’t get to see the rest of the poem. The clues are consecutive. First clue is wwwh. Pretty much means the first stanza is where you get help figuring out wwwh. It has the word “hint” in it. I’d like Sean to read out loud the poem to us with how f defines the word hint for us...

I disagree with your conclusion here. I don't think Mr F meant that you need the first stanza to have confidence in the starting location. He is just saying that you need the other ingredients to make that cake.
Reply
06-14-2019, 12:01 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-15-2019, 07:02 AM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(06-14-2019, 10:43 AM)dude here Wrote:
(06-14-2019, 09:28 AM)fundamental design Wrote: [quote="fundamental design" pid='223099' dateline='1560522525']
Sean already agreed with me before that history is involved emphatically with the Chase. That’s what an objective person would figure out. So, why try to diss it now? I don’t get it.

There is not much history involved.

I believe there is. Do you say that objectively? And if so, what do you cite that helps you say that?

It depends on what type of history you’re talking about. The Chase has been going on for 9 years or so. All of that 9 years is history along with all that has been produced in that time. It’s just more recent history than the history where f says he wishes he was born 50 years (is that the correct number?) earlier. It’s all relative. That is exactly what I told Sean and where he finally agreed that there is history involved in the Chase...especially if it’s not found in another 10,20, 50 or more 100 or more years from now. It’s undeniable. The question is does any of that history help us with the clues. Maps don’t have too many futuristic landmarks printed on them. Lol

(06-14-2019, 10:43 AM)dude here Wrote:
(06-14-2019, 09:28 AM)fundamental design Wrote: [quote="fundamental design" pid='223099' dateline='1560522525']
For example this question:

Dear Forrest,

You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:

a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and

b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail?

Steve No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

The gang on the show did produce the idea that there’s prbly something important in the first stanza of the poem. I agree with that and that’s what I’ve been saying for a long time on this thread and elsewhere. I’ve gone into great detail why, instead of just the obvious opinion, that it’s important.

F says you can’t proceed with confidence with those two clues where wwwh is one of them. You didn’t get to see the rest of the poem. The clues are consecutive. First clue is wwwh. Pretty much means the first stanza is where you get help figuring out wwwh. It has the word “hint” in it. I’d like Sean to read out loud the poem to us with how f defines the word hint for us...

I disagree with your conclusion here. I don't think Mr F meant that you need the first stanza to have confidence in the starting location. He is just saying that you need the other ingredients to make that cake.

So, where else do you find something that helps you have confidence in the starting location if not the first stanza? I’m pretty sure f tied the two outcomes together in his answer.


Howdy, Mister.
Reply
06-14-2019, 01:08 PM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(06-14-2019, 12:01 PM)fundamental design Wrote:
(06-14-2019, 10:43 AM)dude here Wrote:
(06-14-2019, 09:28 AM)fundamental design Wrote: [quote="fundamental design" pid='223099' dateline='1560522525']
Sean already agreed with me before that history is involved emphatically with the Chase. That’s what an objective person would figure out. So, why try to diss it now? I don’t get it.

There is not much history involved.

I believe there is. Do you say that objectively? And if so, what do you cite that helps you say that?

It depends on what type of history you’re talking about. The Chase has been going on for 8 years or so. All of that 8 years is history along with all that has been produced in that time. It’s just more recent history than the history where f says he wishes he was born 50 years (is that the correct number?) earlier. It’s all relative. That is exactly what I told Sean and where he finally agreed that there is history involved in the Chase...especially if it’s not found in another 10,20, 50 or more 100 or more years from now. It’s undeniable. The question is does any of that history help us with the clues. Maps don’t have too many futuristic landmarks printed on them. Lol

I'm just saying there is not much of what we normally refer to as the subject history (e.g. modern history, ancient history, Native American history, etc).

To solve it, you basically interpret what the clues are saying and match that to a place or feature. It's that simple. There is no deep meaning, you won't find religion or the meaning of life. You read the poem and the book, figure out what he means, and identify a location. Repeat that for the nine clues. You get a lot of gold in the end and that's all he promised.

Doing that is hard enough. And I've looked at the historical and cultural and political hints he provided too. It's part of the process. You have to go down those rabbit holes or you'll feel like you've left something out. But the bottom line is, that stuff is not crucial. You have to tune in and get what he is saying. That's what's crucial.

(06-14-2019, 12:01 PM)fundamental design Wrote:
(06-14-2019, 10:43 AM)dude here Wrote:
(06-14-2019, 09:28 AM)fundamental design Wrote: [quote="fundamental design" pid='223099' dateline='1560522525']
For example this question:

Dear Forrest,

You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:

a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and

b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail?

Steve No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

The gang on the show did produce the idea that there’s prbly something important in the first stanza of the poem. I agree with that and that’s what I’ve been saying for a long time on this thread and elsewhere. I’ve gone into great detail why, instead of just the obvious opinion, that it’s important.

F says you can’t proceed with confidence with those two clues where wwwh is one of them. You didn’t get to see the rest of the poem. The clues are consecutive. First clue is wwwh. Pretty much means the first stanza is where you get help figuring out wwwh. It has the word “hint” in it. I’d like Sean to read out loud the poem to us with how f defines the word hint for us...

I disagree with your conclusion here. I don't think Mr F meant that you need the first stanza to have confidence in the starting location. He is just saying that you need the other ingredients to make that cake.

So, where else do you find something that helps you have confidence in the starting location if not the first stanza? I’m pretty sure f tied the two outcomes together in his answer.

It could be in the first stanza. But if the first clue is in the second stanza, then maybe it's there.
Reply
06-14-2019, 03:45 PM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
For the record, not that anybody cares, I agree with what DudeHere wrote above. He worries me.

"There is not much history involved."

&

"I'm just saying there is not much of what we normally refer to as the subject history (e.g. modern history, ancient history, Native American history, etc).

To solve it, you basically interpret what the clues are saying and match that to a place or feature. It's that simple. There is no deep meaning, you won't find religion or the meaning of life. You read the poem and the book, figure out what he means, and identify a location. Repeat that for the nine clues. You get a lot of gold in the end and that's all he promised.

Doing that is hard enough. And I've looked at the historical and cultural and political hints he provided too. It's part of the process. You have to go down those rabbit holes or you'll feel like you've left something out. But the bottom line is, that stuff is not crucial. You have to tune in and get what he is saying. That's what's crucial."

I think we'll find out eventually.
Reply
06-15-2019, 12:13 AM,
THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Okay, well I guess there’s nothing to talk about then.


razyfamily
Reply
06-15-2019, 07:45 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-15-2019, 09:20 AM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(06-14-2019, 03:45 PM)John Brown Wrote: For the record, not that anybody cares, I agree with what DudeHere wrote above. He worries me.

"There is not much history involved."

&

"I'm just saying there is not much of what we normally refer to as the subject history (e.g. modern history, ancient history, Native American history, etc).

To solve it, you basically interpret what the clues are saying and match that to a place or feature. It's that simple. There is no deep meaning, you won't find religion or the meaning of life. You read the poem and the book, figure out what he means, and identify a location. Repeat that for the nine clues. You get a lot of gold in the end and that's all he promised.

Doing that is hard enough. And I've looked at the historical and cultural and political hints he provided too. It's part of the process. You have to go down those rabbit holes or you'll feel like you've left something out. But the bottom line is, that stuff is not crucial. You have to tune in and get what he is saying. That's what's crucial."

I think we'll find out eventually.

I don’t agree with some of what you guys are saying and that’s ok. Let’s look at what you have said and how I see it...

“There is not much history involved”

&

"I'm just saying there is not much of what we normally refer to as the subject history (e.g. modern history, ancient history, Native American history, etc).”

- So, you’d be agreeing with me if I said I think there’s a very little bit of history that can be vital to figuring out the path to the tc.

“To solve it, you basically interpret what the clues are saying and match that to a place or feature. It's that simple. There is no deep meaning, you won't find religion or the meaning of life. You read the poem and the book, figure out what he means, and identify a location. Repeat that for the nine clues. You get a lot of gold in the end and that's all he promised.”

- What you are actually saying here is the hints will be an integral part of the process to unlocking the clues. I agree.

“Doing that is hard enough. And I've looked at the historical and cultural and political hints he provided too. It's part of the process. You have to go down those rabbit holes or you'll feel like you've left something out. But the bottom line is, that stuff is not crucial. You have to tune in and get what he is saying. That's what's crucial.”

- I’d say anything that is involved with the one, certain process involved with following precisely the 9 clues is crucial or vital. There’s billions upon billions of ways not to precisely follow the proper path to the tc. The amount of correct pieces from correct decipherings are absolutely negligible compared to the amount of wrong combinations of pieces that exist. I think one better feel that they need to have at last 10 of those pieces correct, each being vital or critical. At least 10 because there’s a total of around 11-12 pieces...9 clues plus a few hints in TTOTC book.

One more thing, “You have to tune in and get what he is saying. That's what's crucial.”

- That’s pretty general, I just break it down more. But, maybe you are missing something. I also add that it’s prbly crucial,or vital, to tune in to what he’s not saying explicitly.


Howdy, Mister.
Reply
07-08-2019, 12:37 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-08-2019, 01:29 PM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
I see a lot of searchers leave off the last four words of this f quote and I think it’s a mistake to do that. I think it changes the meaning of the statement that f was making...

The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. F

With the complete sentence, it can be reasoned that the hints in the book don’t do the same job as the clues in the poem. This has been what f has clearly stated elsewhere. I think that’s what he said in the above quote but just with different words.

Just because hints and clues have different tasks or abilities attached to them doesn’t make either of them non vital. It’s the clues that aid the seeker by getting one closer to the tc. The hints just help with the clues.


Howdy, Mister.
Reply


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