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THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
06-14-2019, 09:58 AM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
What the ?
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06-14-2019, 10:20 AM,
THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Is art objective or subjective?

Is the poem art? TTOTC art? Is the constitution art? The Mueller report? Is a Rand McNally map art? Which of these have been interpreted in totally opposite ways?

The poem is a map - are the places named Where Warm Waters Halt, No Place For The Meek, Home Of Brown, etc? No, obviously not. A self proclaimed “poem purist” who is somehow able to ignore outside influence to the poem is at a severe disadvantage in the same way as those who cannot interpret art.

Like I said before, the poem doesn’t even tell you which state to start your search any more than a grocery shopping list tells what you’re cooking - even though both contain all the information you need.

Thankfully, there are stupid conversations like that one to keep those guys and their pea brains occupied.


razyfamily
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06-14-2019, 10:43 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-14-2019, 10:43 AM by dude here.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(06-14-2019, 09:28 AM)fundamental design Wrote: Thought I’d review and comment on the latest Flipside video where they were talking about subjectivity and objectivity in the Chase again.

Seanm is irrelevant. He made himself irrelevant by dismissing the hints vital to success. Without those hints, it could take him a thousand years to happen upon the correct solve. He's like that monkey with the typewriter who will eventually reproduce the complete works of Shakespeare.

(06-14-2019, 09:28 AM)fundamental design Wrote: Sean already agreed with me before that history is involved emphatically with the Chase. That’s what an objective person would figure out. So, why try to diss it now? I don’t get it.

There is not much history involved.

(06-14-2019, 09:28 AM)fundamental design Wrote: For example this question:

Dear Forrest,

You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:

a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and

b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail?

Steve No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

The gang on the show did produce the idea that there’s prbly something important in the first stanza of the poem. I agree with that and that’s what I’ve been saying for a long time on this thread and elsewhere. I’ve gone into great detail why, instead of just the obvious opinion, that it’s important.

F says you can’t proceed with confidence with those two clues where wwwh is one of them. You didn’t get to see the rest of the poem. The clues are consecutive. First clue is wwwh. Pretty much means the first stanza is where you get help figuring out wwwh. It has the word “hint” in it. I’d like Sean to read out loud the poem to us with how f defines the word hint for us...

I disagree with your conclusion here. I don't think Mr F meant that you need the first stanza to have confidence in the starting location. He is just saying that you need the other ingredients to make that cake.
Reply
06-14-2019, 12:01 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-15-2019, 07:02 AM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(06-14-2019, 10:43 AM)dude here Wrote:
(06-14-2019, 09:28 AM)fundamental design Wrote: [quote="fundamental design" pid='223099' dateline='1560522525']
Sean already agreed with me before that history is involved emphatically with the Chase. That’s what an objective person would figure out. So, why try to diss it now? I don’t get it.

There is not much history involved.

I believe there is. Do you say that objectively? And if so, what do you cite that helps you say that?

It depends on what type of history you’re talking about. The Chase has been going on for 9 years or so. All of that 9 years is history along with all that has been produced in that time. It’s just more recent history than the history where f says he wishes he was born 50 years (is that the correct number?) earlier. It’s all relative. That is exactly what I told Sean and where he finally agreed that there is history involved in the Chase...especially if it’s not found in another 10,20, 50 or more 100 or more years from now. It’s undeniable. The question is does any of that history help us with the clues. Maps don’t have too many futuristic landmarks printed on them. Lol

(06-14-2019, 10:43 AM)dude here Wrote:
(06-14-2019, 09:28 AM)fundamental design Wrote: [quote="fundamental design" pid='223099' dateline='1560522525']
For example this question:

Dear Forrest,

You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:

a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and

b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail?

Steve No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

The gang on the show did produce the idea that there’s prbly something important in the first stanza of the poem. I agree with that and that’s what I’ve been saying for a long time on this thread and elsewhere. I’ve gone into great detail why, instead of just the obvious opinion, that it’s important.

F says you can’t proceed with confidence with those two clues where wwwh is one of them. You didn’t get to see the rest of the poem. The clues are consecutive. First clue is wwwh. Pretty much means the first stanza is where you get help figuring out wwwh. It has the word “hint” in it. I’d like Sean to read out loud the poem to us with how f defines the word hint for us...

I disagree with your conclusion here. I don't think Mr F meant that you need the first stanza to have confidence in the starting location. He is just saying that you need the other ingredients to make that cake.

So, where else do you find something that helps you have confidence in the starting location if not the first stanza? I’m pretty sure f tied the two outcomes together in his answer.


Howdy, Mister.
Reply
06-14-2019, 01:08 PM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(06-14-2019, 12:01 PM)fundamental design Wrote:
(06-14-2019, 10:43 AM)dude here Wrote:
(06-14-2019, 09:28 AM)fundamental design Wrote: [quote="fundamental design" pid='223099' dateline='1560522525']
Sean already agreed with me before that history is involved emphatically with the Chase. That’s what an objective person would figure out. So, why try to diss it now? I don’t get it.

There is not much history involved.

I believe there is. Do you say that objectively? And if so, what do you cite that helps you say that?

It depends on what type of history you’re talking about. The Chase has been going on for 8 years or so. All of that 8 years is history along with all that has been produced in that time. It’s just more recent history than the history where f says he wishes he was born 50 years (is that the correct number?) earlier. It’s all relative. That is exactly what I told Sean and where he finally agreed that there is history involved in the Chase...especially if it’s not found in another 10,20, 50 or more 100 or more years from now. It’s undeniable. The question is does any of that history help us with the clues. Maps don’t have too many futuristic landmarks printed on them. Lol

I'm just saying there is not much of what we normally refer to as the subject history (e.g. modern history, ancient history, Native American history, etc).

To solve it, you basically interpret what the clues are saying and match that to a place or feature. It's that simple. There is no deep meaning, you won't find religion or the meaning of life. You read the poem and the book, figure out what he means, and identify a location. Repeat that for the nine clues. You get a lot of gold in the end and that's all he promised.

Doing that is hard enough. And I've looked at the historical and cultural and political hints he provided too. It's part of the process. You have to go down those rabbit holes or you'll feel like you've left something out. But the bottom line is, that stuff is not crucial. You have to tune in and get what he is saying. That's what's crucial.

(06-14-2019, 12:01 PM)fundamental design Wrote:
(06-14-2019, 10:43 AM)dude here Wrote:
(06-14-2019, 09:28 AM)fundamental design Wrote: [quote="fundamental design" pid='223099' dateline='1560522525']
For example this question:

Dear Forrest,

You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:

a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and

b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail?

Steve No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

The gang on the show did produce the idea that there’s prbly something important in the first stanza of the poem. I agree with that and that’s what I’ve been saying for a long time on this thread and elsewhere. I’ve gone into great detail why, instead of just the obvious opinion, that it’s important.

F says you can’t proceed with confidence with those two clues where wwwh is one of them. You didn’t get to see the rest of the poem. The clues are consecutive. First clue is wwwh. Pretty much means the first stanza is where you get help figuring out wwwh. It has the word “hint” in it. I’d like Sean to read out loud the poem to us with how f defines the word hint for us...

I disagree with your conclusion here. I don't think Mr F meant that you need the first stanza to have confidence in the starting location. He is just saying that you need the other ingredients to make that cake.

So, where else do you find something that helps you have confidence in the starting location if not the first stanza? I’m pretty sure f tied the two outcomes together in his answer.

It could be in the first stanza. But if the first clue is in the second stanza, then maybe it's there.
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06-14-2019, 03:45 PM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
For the record, not that anybody cares, I agree with what DudeHere wrote above. He worries me.

"There is not much history involved."

&

"I'm just saying there is not much of what we normally refer to as the subject history (e.g. modern history, ancient history, Native American history, etc).

To solve it, you basically interpret what the clues are saying and match that to a place or feature. It's that simple. There is no deep meaning, you won't find religion or the meaning of life. You read the poem and the book, figure out what he means, and identify a location. Repeat that for the nine clues. You get a lot of gold in the end and that's all he promised.

Doing that is hard enough. And I've looked at the historical and cultural and political hints he provided too. It's part of the process. You have to go down those rabbit holes or you'll feel like you've left something out. But the bottom line is, that stuff is not crucial. You have to tune in and get what he is saying. That's what's crucial."

I think we'll find out eventually.
Reply
06-15-2019, 12:13 AM,
THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Okay, well I guess there’s nothing to talk about then.


razyfamily
Reply
06-15-2019, 07:45 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-15-2019, 09:20 AM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(06-14-2019, 03:45 PM)John Brown Wrote: For the record, not that anybody cares, I agree with what DudeHere wrote above. He worries me.

"There is not much history involved."

&

"I'm just saying there is not much of what we normally refer to as the subject history (e.g. modern history, ancient history, Native American history, etc).

To solve it, you basically interpret what the clues are saying and match that to a place or feature. It's that simple. There is no deep meaning, you won't find religion or the meaning of life. You read the poem and the book, figure out what he means, and identify a location. Repeat that for the nine clues. You get a lot of gold in the end and that's all he promised.

Doing that is hard enough. And I've looked at the historical and cultural and political hints he provided too. It's part of the process. You have to go down those rabbit holes or you'll feel like you've left something out. But the bottom line is, that stuff is not crucial. You have to tune in and get what he is saying. That's what's crucial."

I think we'll find out eventually.

I don’t agree with some of what you guys are saying and that’s ok. Let’s look at what you have said and how I see it...

“There is not much history involved”

&

"I'm just saying there is not much of what we normally refer to as the subject history (e.g. modern history, ancient history, Native American history, etc).”

- So, you’d be agreeing with me if I said I think there’s a very little bit of history that can be vital to figuring out the path to the tc.

“To solve it, you basically interpret what the clues are saying and match that to a place or feature. It's that simple. There is no deep meaning, you won't find religion or the meaning of life. You read the poem and the book, figure out what he means, and identify a location. Repeat that for the nine clues. You get a lot of gold in the end and that's all he promised.”

- What you are actually saying here is the hints will be an integral part of the process to unlocking the clues. I agree.

“Doing that is hard enough. And I've looked at the historical and cultural and political hints he provided too. It's part of the process. You have to go down those rabbit holes or you'll feel like you've left something out. But the bottom line is, that stuff is not crucial. You have to tune in and get what he is saying. That's what's crucial.”

- I’d say anything that is involved with the one, certain process involved with following precisely the 9 clues is crucial or vital. There’s billions upon billions of ways not to precisely follow the proper path to the tc. The amount of correct pieces from correct decipherings are absolutely negligible compared to the amount of wrong combinations of pieces that exist. I think one better feel that they need to have at last 10 of those pieces correct, each being vital or critical. At least 10 because there’s a total of around 11-12 pieces...9 clues plus a few hints in TTOTC book.

One more thing, “You have to tune in and get what he is saying. That's what's crucial.”

- That’s pretty general, I just break it down more. But, maybe you are missing something. I also add that it’s prbly crucial,or vital, to tune in to what he’s not saying explicitly.


Howdy, Mister.
Reply
07-08-2019, 12:37 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-08-2019, 01:29 PM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
I see a lot of searchers leave off the last four words of this f quote and I think it’s a mistake to do that. I think it changes the meaning of the statement that f was making...

The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. F

With the complete sentence, it can be reasoned that the hints in the book don’t do the same job as the clues in the poem. This has been what f has clearly stated elsewhere. I think that’s what he said in the above quote but just with different words.

Just because hints and clues have different tasks or abilities attached to them doesn’t make either of them non vital. It’s the clues that aid the seeker by getting one closer to the tc. The hints just help with the clues.


Howdy, Mister.
Reply
07-11-2019, 04:06 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-12-2019, 07:08 AM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
This is a write up I did on Seannm’s The Flip Side- Flip the Flip (forget the exact name...Flip the script?) with Minotaur Moreno. I’m pasting it here from another thread...

I can’t believe that Sean said he hadn’t thought about the idea that hints in the book can be found from looking for things that are abstract, that catch up in your brain as f has mentioned to us. Aberrations too. I know that I’ve mentioned that plenty of times when him and Mdavis show the way of a poem purist.

I also don’t agree with Sean that the hints in the book are soooooo subjective. I think it’s the complete opposite. The hints are the non-subjective tidbit in the chain of the correct solve. All the clues in the poem, by themselves, are the subjective problem in the Chase.

I also don’t understand Sean’s take on the subtle clues in the book weren’t deliberately placed to aid the seeker. To me, you can’t just focus in on the weren’t deliberately placed part. That’s out of context. You got to include the to aid the seeker part. That part, to me, means those subtle hints don’t act as clues in the poem. They only help the clues which we know from other f quotes. Just another way that f described it.

That brings me to my next point. Sean says the hints in the book are subjective so that’s why he sticks with the poem. But if you, or anyone, are having a tough time with just the clues, then why wouldn’t you go to the hints as f’s best advice suggests. Cause the hints “help” with the clues. I’m not saying I know how far along each searcher is in correctly figuring out the clues but how long are you gonna say I don’t need any help with the clues?...2 years, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, 40 years? Don’t kid yourself.

Sean and other poem purists don’t call attention to the situation that the apparent vagueness of the poem levels out pleeeeeenty of subjectiveness in where the combinations of the nine clues can take a searcher if they don’t use a hint. I have structured my posts about the hints on not separating the hints in the book and possible hint(s) in the poem.

I do agree with Sean that the poem does provide a way to unlock the correct wwwh. I’d say that could be unlocked by a hint in the poem that is tougher to figure out than the hints in the book. But, they all will work in concert to provide the best confidence because they all lead to the same general area. So, why wouldn’t you try to figure out the easier hints than
the tougher hint?

I don’t agree with Sean that it’s a waste of time to look into further mentionings in the book if something sticks up in your mind. Like Sean’s example of Robert Redford’s book. There simply is a map in the beginning of the book. What happens if something on the map corresponds to something in another example that Sean brought up...John C whatever? Did anyone check to see if John C whatever was a real student that went to f’s school at the time?

At one point Sean said something like he knows the hints in the book are subjective. I don’t agree that’s a good way to put it. You can think that, but there could be one aspect for each of the couple of hints that is non subjective. Robert Redford did write a book. Non subjective. Very subtle as it’s not even written in TTOTC that Redford did write a book. If that’s a hint somehow, it passes the test that it wasn’t deliberately placed to aid the seeker because it doesn’t get one closer to the tc than the first clue does. The first clue is where the definition of a clue starts.

Edit to add: I liked Minotaur’s ideas about the topic. One thing that I think needs to be refined is that he said maybe there’s hints in the book that apply to 9 clue locations somehow. At other times, he said he thought the hints take one to the correct general where one can find wwwh. I think this second theory is all that is needed. We don’t need added hints to help with all, or most, of the clues because the clues do that. The clues set up the next clue.


Howdy, Mister.
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