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THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
09-05-2019, 09:24 AM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(09-05-2019, 09:18 AM)fundamental design Wrote: What.do you guys think...if the tc hasn’t been found in like 150 years or more, will TTOTC book be readily available for someone to find out about the Chase? Or will just the poem be available? Which will be more likely to be available for someone interested in finding out about the Chase, once coming across it?

If one thinks the TTOTC book would be more likely, or easily, available, then there’s something we can take from that and maybe that’s one reason why f has pointed to his book as a way to help with the poem clues.

This is that f has repeated every main point in the first stanza lines in the book.

Why repeat the main topics in the beginning lines of the poem if there isn’t something hidden in them? Why do a second introduction to the poem since it’s already introduced in the book?

As I have gone alone in there- It was vital that nobody share my knowledge about the location of the treasure.

And with my treasures bold,- So I decided to fill a treasure chest with gold and jewels, then secret it- leaving clues on how to find it for any searcher willing to try.

I can keep my secret where,- It was vital that nobody share my knowledge about the location of the treasure.

And hint of riches new and old.- There are also other subtle clues sprinkled in the stories.

It makes the first stanza a repeated and unnecessary introduction in a poem with precious real estate. Tells me there’s something hidden and vital in the first stanza.
Good job.

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09-05-2019, 10:59 AM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
The book will be widely available online in 150 years.

I'm thinking along the same lines as you. The intro stanza has something.

Also, we all might be totally off on the method to solve this thing.

I thought I was on the right track. Everything lined up, and it followed a chapter in the book where he seems to hint at the clues in order. But that darn 200 / 500 foot quote just seemed to make the final spot wrong.
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09-13-2019, 05:18 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-13-2019, 08:59 AM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Conventional thinking....

So I walk into a hardware store that's far, but not too far, away from my house...

Guy says to me, "Hi! Do you know WHAT you're looking for?"

I says, "Uhhh, no... I don't know WHAT I'm looking for, but I think I know WHERE to look for it.... My confirmation bias tells me it's someplace in the plumbing section."

Guy says, "Ok, well, how do you know WHERE it is if you don't know WHAT it is? I mean, look dude, we have thousands of plumbing supplies for sale and they are located in stanzas aisles 2, 3, and 4.... But I could tell you EXACTLY WHERE to find it if you know WHAT you're looking for."

I says, "Uh, yeah ok... I'm looking for something that mixes the hot water from my water heater with the cold water from the supply line so that I don't scald myself when I dip my toe in the waters of my bath. You know, something that makes the water warm....errr.... comfortable."

Guy says, "OH! I know WHAT you're talking about! You need a Honeywell Thermostatic Mixing Valve. That's located halfway down aisle 2, right below the Brown toilet bowl brushes."

——————————————————————————-
I don’t think this is a proper or important comparison about ‘what’ versus “where” in the poem.

Too much thinking going on with elaborate examples that miss the boat.

There’s an often overlooked important point that can be seen from the above example though. The important part is you found the ‘what’ and “where” of the HARDWARE STORE. That’s the key. Then comparing with the poem, once you get to aisle 2 there is only one item on the whole aisle. That is your wwwh.

The following overthinking is another example of missing the boat. The idea of the hardware store is the same important factor, imo. It has nothing to do with wwwh derivatives or any of the silliness that is wasted time below...

Searcher A : Let's go searching in the Rocky Mountains for Forrest Fenn's treasure.
Searcher B : Okay, where at in the Rocky Mountains do we search for it ?
A : Well, we Begin it where warm waters halt.
B : And where is that ?
A : Well, it's where the warm waters halt.
B : Okay, but how do we know where that is ?
A : Well, we look for warm waters and figure out where they halt.
B : But what is it that we're looking for ?
A : I already told you, we're looking for warm waters.
B : But, what is warm waters ?
A : It doesn't matter, you idiot, we just need to find where they halt.
B : But, shouldn't we need to know what they are, in order to figure out where they halt ?
A : Look, moron, how many times I gotta tell you that it doesn't matter what we are looking for, it only matters that we find where they halt ?
B : I really don't see how we can search for something without first knowing what it is we are searching for.
A : That's because you're an idiot with pre-conceived biases.
B : Okay, where are we going to look for these warm waters ?
A : Well, we're going to start where this warm river meets up with this colder river.
B : Why ?
A : Because the warm waters halt when they join the colder water.
B : Isn't that a good example of pre-conceived bias ?
A : No, you ninny, anyone can see that the warm waters halt when they mix with the cold water !
B : But they haven't really halted, they've just changed temperature and are still moving .
A : Good lord, are you really that dense ? They are no longer warm, so they have halted.
B : But the poem doesn't say that they've stopped being warm, it says that they have halted.
A : That's right, you idiot, they have halted being warm !
B : So you're saying that halt means they are no longer warm from this point ?
A : That's right.
B : So, you are saying that we need to know what halt means ?
A : Of course we need to know what it means ! Geezus , you're a real idiot.
B : But we don't need to know what warm waters means ?
A : Damn. You're pretty freakin stoopid. For the thousandth time, NO, we don't need to know what they are, we just need to find where they halt !
B : Okay, and you're saying this one river is warm because of what ?
A : Because it's pleasant to swim in, it's not too cold.
B : Isn't that a pre-conceived bias ? Haven't you already decided what warm waters are ?
A : The freakin water is warm, dude, trust me. Dip your toe in it and you'll see.
B : Feels a bit cool to me.
A : What evvs, it's warmer than the one it joins up with over there. That means that this is where they halt.
B : But there are many places like this in the RMs . Isn't this a bit like throwing darts at a map ?
A : Idiot.

I think all searchers would agree that we are not picking the correct canyon (of the million canyons) in the Rocky Mountains from just that line in the poem- and take it in the canyon down even though we are given the general what of that- canyon.

So why do some searchers obsess with overthinking about just the wwwh poem line while trying to solve that clue? Don’t make sense.

Pays to be a winner.
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09-13-2019, 08:32 AM,
THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
"They get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is.”

...where the first clue is. It sort of assumes that we know what the first clue is.


razyfamily
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09-13-2019, 08:56 AM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(09-13-2019, 08:32 AM)crazyfamily Wrote: "They get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is.”

...where the first clue is. It sort of assumes that we know what the first clue is.

Progressively easier is somewhat questionable. Obviously, if you know "where" the first clue is, that could help define your search area geographically, or help define your search pattern within the poem (if "where" is related to the line position in the poem).

However, I found the ninth clue to be a lot more difficult than many of the intermediate clues.
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09-13-2019, 09:12 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-13-2019, 09:13 AM by crazyfamily.)
THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Yeah. Remember too that the little girl from India can’t get past the second clue, so how easy is it is seems to depend on other factors.

Also, “easier” is quite vague. Easier what? To solve, to find, to get to?


razyfamily

I mean, you can’t find the treasure on Easter, so what’s the deal?


razyfamily
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09-13-2019, 09:16 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-13-2019, 09:18 AM by mikemarcum03.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(09-13-2019, 09:12 AM)crazyfamily Wrote: Yeah. Remember too that the little girl from India can’t get past the second clue, so how easy is it is seems to depend on other factors.

Also, “easier” is quite vague. Easier what? To solve, to find, to get to?


razyfamily

I mean, you can’t find the treasure on Easter, so what’s the deal?


razyfamily
So we can find wwwh from G.E would that be right

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09-13-2019, 09:38 AM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Beavertooth,

Are you already to the ninth clue? If so, then why have you not retrieved the chest. It's great if you've got it figured out, but if it were me, I'd be on my way to grab it. But, I'm still not wise enough... Congrat to u!
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09-13-2019, 11:35 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-13-2019, 11:37 AM by Beavertooth.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(09-13-2019, 09:38 AM)mrknow Wrote: Beavertooth,

Are you already to the ninth clue? If so, then why have you not retrieved the chest. It's great if you've got it figured out, but if it were me, I'd be on my way to grab it. But, I'm still not wise enough... Congrat to u!

Been held up by a variety of factors. A little uncertain about a couple of intermediate clues, which might impact later clue (but perhaps not). I would like all nine clues to have "elegant" solves, with some of them harking back to Fenn's implied "simple" once you figure them out. I do have an elegant solve for what I believe to be the ninth clue. I do have a WWWH that is extremely well supported by the poem, the book, and subsequent ff comments/scrapbooks.

I have made a lot of progress in the last few months.

I will be headed out soon, just to check things out. At least it's not Easter! Let's hope there haven't been any landslides, etc in the interim.

Smile
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09-14-2019, 06:16 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-14-2019, 06:32 PM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
I think it’s important to shine a light on a post when one finds that an assumption has been made which results in jumping to a conclusion that is misguided. Here’s the latest...

I will first post a part of the original post that this other post referenced (I posted and talked about the original post ystdy so I’ll just give the beginning of the long scenario)-

Searcher A : Let's go searching in the Rocky Mountains for Forrest Fenn's treasure.
Searcher B : Okay, where at in the Rocky Mountains do we search for it ?
A : Well, we Begin it where warm waters halt.
B : And where is that ?
A : Well, it's where the warm waters halt.
B : Okay, but how do we know where that is ?
A : Well, we look for warm waters and figure out where they halt.
B : But what is it that we're looking for ?
A : I already told you, we're looking for warm waters.
B : But, what is warm waters ?
————————————————

And this is the other’s response-


All,

This entire write up may be derived from one who has the mindset of an oversimplified clue, that being that the entire first clue is just: "begin it where warm waters halt"

If that is indeed the case then one will be focused on trying to determine what warm waters halt is, because to that individual it will be imperative to figuring what warm waters halt is so that they can then identify all of them within the entirety of the Rocky Mountains, then go looking for a canyon and a brown, which I'm sure they will find many coincidences based upon that belief. This is, in my opinion, what most, if not all, searchers have been doing for nearly 10 years.

But, I am a nine sentences are the nine clues believer, thus the first clue is a complete sentence, so there are more words or ingredients to that first clue then just that single line. And along that same line of thinking, there are 8 more sentences to go, which may encompass the big picture. entire first clue is just: "begin it where warm waters halt"
——————————————————————
The assumption- If that is indeed the case then one will be focused on trying to determine what warm waters halt is, because to that individual it will be imperative to figuring what warm waters halt is so that they can then identify all of them within the entirety of the Rocky Mountains, then go looking for a canyon and a brown, which I'm sure they will find many coincidences based upon that belief. This is, in my opinion, what most, if not all, searchers have been doing for nearly 10 years.
——————————————————————
This is not how all searchers, who take f’s quote that BIWWWH is the first clue, proceed. There is no such restriction on how one goes about trying to determine the correct where warm waters halt clue when one believes the BIWWWH line is the first clue. It isn’t required that one then try to determine “what” warm waters halt is. This is ridiculous.

Pretty sure I’ve posted plenty of times on this thread a reasonable alternative approach for searchers that fit this initial scenario of not thinking ‘what’ wwwh is important to figure out first and how they can find the missing ingredients that can possibly help determine the correct wwwh. They can look in the first stanza for a possible hint that points to the correct wwwh. Is this searcher (poem purist) so scared of hints that he can’t say the word hint or think that a hint is a reasonable building block in the design of the treasure path? It makes for a more reasonable explanation for why BIWWWH is the first clue, like f said, instead of the 9 sentences are the nine clues method. I’d say that method has a fatal flaw in it and what I just explained outlines that.

I think my post highlights the confirmation bias of the searcher who posted the assumption.

Pays to be a winner.
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