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THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
08-31-2017, 11:16 AM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-31-2017, 10:57 AM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-31-2017, 10:33 AM)resa Wrote: When ff said the poem said exactly what he wanted, he acknowledged the poem was stand alone. The hints in the book aren't critical, but they are helpful if we can figure them out. His directions of reading and memorizing the poem before we read the books speaks to his expectation that we solve the clues before we start looking for hints.

I don't agree that f expects us to solve the clues before we start looking for hints. Even though you didn't mention how many clues you think f expects us to solve first, it sounds like an impossible endeavor.
Mr. Fundamental, if I may ask: It appears that you feel that it's vital, to the success of solving the clues, to first identify the subtle hints in the book in order to help solve the clues, but is it not possible that the subtle hints may only help confirm the clues are correct only after one has correctly solved them? Now one may not require that post confirmation, but it could be helpful in providing certainty.
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08-31-2017, 11:17 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-31-2017, 11:37 AM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-31-2017, 10:24 AM)N. Means Wrote:
(08-31-2017, 10:06 AM)fundamental design Wrote: ^"There are a couple of good hints" (in ttotc). As I have been saying.

Remember, my OP does not distingnuish where finding hints as what's important but that hints will be vital (very useful) in cracking the poem wherever one may think they can find them.
Sure I have no problem with that line of thinking, but if one was able to "crack" the poem without the need of these subjective subtle hints, isn't it more plausible that their solve would provide them more certainty, than say with them?

I mean if I focus my solving of WWWH, partially based upon a subtle hint/hints, those that could be subjective, then my entire solve, from that point forward, could then be based upon an assumption. And that does not sound like certainty to me.

It doesn't make that solve incorrect, it just doesn't appear to be set upon a solid foundation.

"Safe upon the solid rock the ugly houses stand: Come and see my shining palace built upon the sand"

"I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did."f

I don't believe cracking the poem only and finding and finding the tc provides more certainty than if someone finds the few hints in ttotc, uses them and then cracks the poem clues to the tc. And it's for the reason that you wrote but I think applied to the wrong thing. You said "I mean if I focus my solving of WWWH, partially based upon a subtle hint/hints, those that could be subjective, then my entire solve, from that point forward, could then be based upon an assumption. And that does not sound like certainty to me."

I've explained earlier in this thread that I feel the hints are "not subjective" and that is key to why I think they are the easier route to take in solving all the clues. The hints provide the foundation of certainty. The many wwwhs are the subjective thing as witnessed by seeing f say there are many wwwh. So you're right, every clue after the first one depends on the first one being right.

I believe I've already mentioned that I think the first stanza of the poem provides a hint to the correct wwwh. It provides the certainty. But I also said, the hints in the book are even easier to find and decipher than the hint in the first stanza. That's a simple method of making everything work out correctly.

I think you guys are over embellishing what it takes to find an aberration in ttotc. Many searchers have posted about ones they think are aberrations. Then, your next comment will probably be it's not just that, you still have to make sense of them. And then I'd say, I think you guys are over embellishing what it takes to make sense of them. I'd also say that trying to figure out the correct wwwh would be like 208,000 times harder to figure out (I underestimated by how much harder the last time I posted this, lol). Then you'll say then why don't you have the tc. And I'd say that back to you.

I mean is it that hard to notice that f wrote about the wrong war when he talked about For Whom The Bell Tolls in ttotc? That's an aberration.

Pays to be a winner.
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08-31-2017, 11:31 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-31-2017, 11:39 AM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-31-2017, 11:16 AM)N. Means Wrote:
(08-31-2017, 10:57 AM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-31-2017, 10:33 AM)resa Wrote: When ff said the poem said exactly what he wanted, he acknowledged the poem was stand alone. The hints in the book aren't critical, but they are helpful if we can figure them out. His directions of reading and memorizing the poem before we read the books speaks to his expectation that we solve the clues before we start looking for hints.

I don't agree that f expects us to solve the clues before we start looking for hints. Even though you didn't mention how many clues you think f expects us to solve first, it sounds like an impossible endeavor.
Mr. Fundamental, if I may ask: It appears that you feel that it's vital, to the success of solving the clues, to first identify the subtle hints in the book in order to help solve the clues, but is it not possible that the subtle hints may only help confirm the clues are correct only after one has correctly solved them? Now one may not require that post confirmation, but it could be helpful in providing certainty.

Very good question and I want to have clarification on one part of your post before I answer. Where you say "but is it not possible that the subtle hints may only help confirm the clues are correct only after one has correctly solved them?". When you said "them" at the end of the sentence did you mean the clues or hints that one solved? I want to make sure I understand what you mean before I reply. Thanks!

Pays to be a winner.
Reply
08-31-2017, 11:36 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-31-2017, 11:39 AM by N. Means.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Mr. Fundamental, you said:

I've m too expensive earlier in this thread that I feel the hints are "not subjective" and that is key to why they are the easier route to take in solving all the clues.

---------------------------------

Of course the subtle hints in the book are subjective, because you are impressing upon them your "personal belief" that they are not subjective, hence the very definition of subjective.

So in my opinion it is far more difficult to isolate, without prejudice, what constitutes a legitimate hint in the book, therefore, it may be a more direct approach, not easier, to just focus on the words in the poem in order to arrive at a solution.

(08-31-2017, 11:31 AM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-31-2017, 11:16 AM)N. Means Wrote:
(08-31-2017, 10:57 AM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-31-2017, 10:33 AM)resa Wrote: When ff said the poem said exactly what he wanted, he acknowledged the poem was stand alone. The hints in the book aren't critical, but they are helpful if we can figure them out. His directions of reading and memorizing the poem before we read the books speaks to his expectation that we solve the clues before we start looking for hints.

I don't agree that f expects us to solve the clues before we start looking for hints. Even though you didn't mention how many clues you think f expects us to solve first, it sounds like an impossible endeavor.
Mr. Fundamental, if I may ask: It appears that you feel that it's vital, to the success of solving the clues, to first identify the subtle hints in the book in order to help solve the clues, but is it not possible that the subtle hints may only help confirm the clues are correct only after one has correctly solved them? Now one may not require that post confirmation, but it could be helpful in providing certainty.

Very good question and I want to have clarification of one part of your post before I answer. Where you say "but is it not possible that the subtle hints may only help confirm the clues are correct only after one has correctly solved them?". When you said "them" at the end of the sentence did you mean the clues or hints that one solved? I want to make sure I understand what you mean before I reply. Thanks!
Them, meaning the correctly solved clues.
Reply
08-31-2017, 11:49 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-31-2017, 11:52 AM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-31-2017, 11:36 AM)N. Means Wrote: Mr. Fundamental, you said:

I've m too expensive earlier in this thread that I feel the hints are "not subjective" and that is key to why they are the easier route to take in solving all the clues.

---------------------------------

Of course the subtle hints in the book are subjective, because you are impressing upon them your "personal belief" that they are not subjective, hence the very definition of subjective.

So in my opinion it is far more difficult to isolate, without prejudice, what constitutes a legitimate hint in the book, therefore, it may be a more direct approach, not easier, to just focus on the words in the poem in order to arrive at a solution.

(08-31-2017, 11:31 AM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-31-2017, 11:16 AM)N. Means Wrote:
(08-31-2017, 10:57 AM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-31-2017, 10:33 AM)resa Wrote: When ff said the poem said exactly what he wanted, he acknowledged the poem was stand alone. The hints in the book aren't critical, but they are helpful if we can figure them out. His directions of reading and memorizing the poem before we read the books speaks to his expectation that we solve the clues before we start looking for hints.

I don't agree that f expects us to solve the clues before we start looking for hints. Even though you didn't mention how many clues you think f expects us to solve first, it sounds like an impossible endeavor.
Mr. Fundamental, if I may ask: It appears that you feel that it's vital, to the success of solving the clues, to first identify the subtle hints in the book in order to help solve the clues, but is it not possible that the subtle hints may only help confirm the clues are correct only after one has correctly solved them? Now one may not require that post confirmation, but it could be helpful in providing certainty.

Very good question and I want to have clarification of one part of your post before I answer. Where you say "but is it not possible that the subtle hints may only help confirm the clues are correct only after one has correctly solved them?". When you said "them" at the end of the sentence did you mean the clues or hints that one solved? I want to make sure I understand what you mean before I reply. Thanks!
Them, meaning the correctly solved clues.

Sorry for the typo above, I fixed it.

If one uses aspects of not being subjective and reason that is how you can possibly derive an easier path to what could constitute a hint and helpful solution. If there's things that trip up in your mind after reading ttotc, like f's best advice to find the tc is, then if two different aberrations marry themselves on the map of the Rocky Mountains then one might take notice and focus on that. I think f is smart enough to understand that and he could have used that technique which means he made sure no other thing would trip up (an aberration) in our minds that happened in the Rocky Mountains. The few good hints could have multiple answers and when one compares all the answers they only match in one distinct area in the Rocky Mountains.

(08-31-2017, 11:44 AM)crazyfamily Wrote: At what point does confirmation bias become confirmation? Because using the hints to confirm the clues is confirmation bias.




razyfamily

Is it subjective that Robert Redford didn't write a book? Maybe that's the first step in answering your question. Over time we might see how that plays out in answering your question.

Pays to be a winner.
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08-31-2017, 11:53 AM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-31-2017, 11:44 AM)crazyfamily Wrote: At what point does confirmation bias become confirmation? Because using the hints to confirm the clues is confirmation bias.




razyfamily
Great question, and precisely why I said that the hints are subjective, and one who employs them in solving the clues is then basing their solve upon an assumption.

And exactly why I had mentioned that one may not need that post confirmation.

The only way to look at this "objectively", in my opinion, is to just focus on the poem.

All of this discourse of course is mute, as no one can prove they are correct until they are.
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08-31-2017, 11:58 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-31-2017, 12:46 PM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-31-2017, 11:45 AM)njfl Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 09:43 PM)N. Means Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 12:24 PM)fundamental design Wrote: I thought I might as well corner the market on the importance of the hints. I know many searchers try to figure out the hints and there's like one that doesn't believe it's worth looking for them in ttotc. So, I'm not saying I'm the first to look for them or the first to say they are important. I'm just gonna bring the search for them into the forefront from here on out by bumping this thread to the top everyday. I don't believe that will be viewed as a trollish move.

This is where the Chase is as of now. All have heard what the first clue is from f himself. The wwwh we are looking for is one of many. The hints will shine the way to the correct wwwh from here on out.....
So then to get back to your OP, why don't you go first and tell us all what you think are the two subtle hints, that you hint at, that help you identify the correct wwwh or those hints to clues that may form an X on the map. I mean isn't that what this thread is about, or are you just asking others to tell you what they think are the subtle hints to help confirm your thoughts.
@ Mr. N
You asked an excellent question and IMO this whole thread is a way for FD to troll for hints. His last sentence of his OP tells all.

Then you just put your foot in your mouth again cause I've repeatedly said in replies to others that none of them have to use what they feel is a legitimate hint, just use a hypothetical example. Everyone else seems to understand that except the ones on exile island that constantly think of more ridiculous conspiracy theories.

Can you pass a note along to NMC that Mdavis is the infamous one that doesn't believe hints will help, contrary to what NMC thinks. Lol

Pays to be a winner.
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08-31-2017, 11:59 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-31-2017, 12:04 PM by N. Means.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Mr. Fundamental, no it is not subjective to know that indeed Mr. Redford was involved in writing "The Outlaw Trail" however, it may be subjective to then believe that that knowledge is somehow key in solving a clue e.g. WWWH.

This is why I feel it is vital to remove all subjectivity by focusing purely on the poem.
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08-31-2017, 12:13 PM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-31-2017, 11:16 AM)N. Means-' Wrote: Mr. Fundamental, if I may ask: It appears that you feel that it's vital, to the success of solving the clues, to first identify the subtle hints in the book in order to help solve the clues, but is it not possible that the subtle hints may only help confirm the clues are correct only after one has correctly solved them? Now one may not require that post confirmation, but it could be helpful in providing certainty.

By saying it the way you do you are saying or implying that there's a confirmation of the clues like even up and including the blaze by at some point deciphering the few hints. I still don't understand why anyone would need confirmation of the correct blaze from a hint when reasonably you would get the blaze clue solve from the CLUE that was designed to do that. F has said you need to nail down the first clue. If you do that than you have your shot of following the rest of the steps that f used. It all hinges on that aspect and not confirmation of clues by hints later on. I'd say no, you shouldn't use the word "only" when you said only help confirm the clues after one has solved the clues. I'd agree that one can have an interest in the correct wwwh area before they correctly figure out a few hints. So, I see that it can happen either way hints first or the correct wwwh area picked but not confirmed yet by the hints. And once again, I'll add that I think there's a hint in the poem that confirms the correct wwwh area. I think it's exponentially easier to figure out the hint than just pluck away at possibly wwwh's.

Pays to be a winner.
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08-31-2017, 12:21 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-31-2017, 12:54 PM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-31-2017, 11:59 AM)N. Means Wrote: Mr. Fundamental, no it is not subjective to know that indeed Mr. Redford was involved in writing "The Outlaw Trail" however, it may be subjective to then believe that that knowledge is somehow key in solving a clue e.g. WWWH.

This is why I feel it is vital to remove all subjectivity by focusing purely on the poem.

Great, it may be subjective to then believe that that knowledge is somehow key in solving a clue. Then again, this is a treasure hunt. And you have to go with something. My example fits the description of f's best advice and that it's an aberration. And it's a zillion times easier to see where that can possibly take someone than just picking wwwh out of the clues. What happens if the poem has a hint that points to the same area that Robert Redford explored in the book? I'd say one would be building confidence a lot faster than just picking a wwwh out of a hat.

Pays to be a winner.
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