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THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
11-13-2017, 10:32 AM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(11-12-2017, 08:16 PM)easternOHsteve Wrote:
(10-18-2017, 09:23 AM)fundamental design Wrote: I’ve got to believe that John Charles whatever refers to John Charles Fremont. Seems like the chances of f referring to anyone else are slim to none. The focus on the part of the story about his mom reinforces it.

@fd
It does't. Think about it a second; he doesn't want you to concentrate on John. whatever... ??? imo

Did you understand why I referred to the part of the John Charles whatever story that mentions his mom’s comments about John Charles?

I don’t understand if you mean that f doesn’t want to openly have us concentrate on John Charles or keep it a mystery of who that is referring to because it’s a hint.

Pays to be a winner.
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11-13-2017, 10:58 AM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
@fd
The latter, imo. It just stinks somehow. If two are mentioned together somewhere else, it just seems to be a subterfuge. It is just a gut feeling. I have a pretty big gut though, lol...
just saying ss
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12-26-2017, 12:38 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-26-2017, 02:08 PM by fundamental design.)
THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
I had a discussion recently on Dal’s Odd and ends thread that llustrates the length that some searchers go to in portraying their position as correct. They don’t use proof and don’t use any knowledgeable response (just their opinion, lol) when you show proof. I think it’s important once in awhile to show that this happens on the blogs. It’s rare but what can you do when you see it but laugh and share with others so they have the knowledge.

In a nutshell, here’s what proceeded...one of the searchers on Dal’s asked me to give an example of what I thought a hint or two in ttotc might be that can introduce a specific geographical area on f’s treasure map since I think that might be how f designed the Chase.

So I provided two examples, first that Robert Redford did write a book and secondly that the famous explorer John Charles Fremont makes for a striking connection to the John Charles whatever story in TTOTC. Then, Jamie Jones posted that the John Charles Fremont connection was random, and therefore totally invalid, as the term “son of a b*tch” doesn’t mean “bast*rd”. And I was like hold on...I can show you how it does so my statement isn’t random or completely invalid. So, I showed that if one googles the definition of b*tch that one of the dictionaries has a definition stating “immoral woman”. To complete the connection, all I have to do is show that the mothers of bast*rds back in the time of John Charles Fremont were referred to as immoral women by the prevailing sentiment of the day. A little background...John Charles Fremont was born as an illegitimate child so obviously that part (a son) in both stories connects. I provided links that did just that. As I will here...[Image: 48f29ad585c96ca2720b0bd86bfa009d.jpg]

[Image: f0e9132348a4edb0673b4224b3405e5b.jpg]

Pays to be a winner.
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12-26-2017, 01:39 PM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
I agree with crazyfamily. John Charles refers to someone else, not Fremont. But if I told you, I would have to shoot you, and that would get in the way of my New Year's resolutions. Smile
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12-26-2017, 01:59 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-26-2017, 02:01 PM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(12-26-2017, 12:56 PM)crazyfamily Wrote: I agree that son-of-a-bitch is synonymous with bastard. I don't agree that John Charles Freemont is THEE John Charles.

[Image: 1940b8c27dd3cf48af6d99fc7e5556d0.jpg]

razyfamily

Good deal. It’s also great to have other people in mind that might be the secret one that f is referring to in his story. But I’d say one can’t throw John Charles Fremont off the list of potentials due to the descriptions of son-of-a-bitch and matching the first two names of John Charles. I mean, a few of the posters over there brought up JC Penny as a potential match. Of course, they couldn’t show that JC Penny has the same first two names or that he was an illegitimate child. Seems like those two points would be prerequisites to that particular mystery in ttotc. Lol

Pays to be a winner.
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12-26-2017, 07:28 PM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Fremont married well - helped to have a powerful Senator as father-in-law - but that gave him more leeway to display his incompetence.
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12-26-2017, 08:27 PM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(12-26-2017, 07:28 PM)old drum Wrote: Fremont married well - helped to have a powerful Senator as father-in-law - but that gave him more leeway to display his incompetence.

Good call, lol.

Pays to be a winner.
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12-27-2017, 01:12 AM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 12:24 PM)fundamental design Wrote: I thought I might as well corner the market on the importance of the hints. I know many searchers try to figure out the hints and there's like one that doesn't believe it's worth looking for them in ttotc. So, I'm not saying I'm the first to look for them or the first to say they are important. I'm just gonna bring the search for them into the forefront from here on out by bumping this thread to the top everyday. I don't believe that will be viewed as a trollish move.

This is where the Chase is as of now. All have heard what the first clue is from f himself. The wwwh we are looking for is one of many. The hints will shine the way to the correct wwwh from here on out.....

I agree completely. Because of the hundreds of possibilities regarding the location or meaning of WWWH there must be a hint that distinguishes one of them from all others. The difficulty is that the hint may only become apparent when considering the correct solution to WWWH. So the correct way to determine WWWH is to keep finding alternative answers and reviewing the poem until the hint appears. I think that once the correct WWWH is considered the hint will become apparent. I think that many people get fixated on a particular WWWH and jump to what they think is the next clue which may be a clue or the hint...
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12-28-2017, 11:54 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-28-2017, 12:13 PM by fundamental design.)
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
Yep, I had another episode over on Dal’s which I thought might as well explain here, lol.

So, the discussion was about if the first stanza in the poem includes hidden and critical information to help solve for the first clue or clues in general...depending on your solve. Shocker, I was of the opinion that the first stanza has a hint that helps solve for the correct wwwh. Some others were saying to me why do you discredit that f just talked about the Chase in a straightforward fashion in that stanza and there’s nothing more to it. To them, the first stanza is nothing but an introduction to the Chase/poem. I was like, I never said that f didn’t write it as an introduction but tell me how come you discredit that there could be something more important lurking in there too.

I woke up this morning with this gem, lol...

Hello Forrest,

If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of santa fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest?

Thank you ~Nope
Thank you Nope. Nope. f

F can take this hypothetical scenario and make sure the poem matches the questions’ conditions and then answer. The conditions say no backstory. The searchers who say stanza one is nothing but an introduction or it only talks in detail about f hiding the tc before the Chase started are equating that to some of the backstory of the Chase.

This means that their theory of it’s only part of the backstory dooms them when f answers nope since f had to eliminate all the backstory from his reply. By happenstance, f just also eliminated any potential hint/critical information in that stanza that us searchers can use. Remember, the last part of the question is that a person can only use the rest of the words in the poem. Since f replies that a person can’t reasonably use the rest of the words in the poem to find the tc then, of course, there’s something in stanza 1 that is critical to figure out, like a hint. Because before f has said this to a question...Will the poem lead you to the treasure? Yes, if you know where to start.

Pays to be a winner.
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12-28-2017, 12:27 PM,
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(12-28-2017, 11:54 AM)fundamental design Wrote: Yep, I had another episode over on Dal’s which I thought might as well explain here, lol.

So, the discussion was about if the first stanza in the poem includes hidden and critical information to help solve for the first clue or clues in general...depending on your solve. Shocker, I was of the opinion that the first stanza has a hint that helps solve for the correct wwwh. Some others were saying to me why do you discredit that f just talked about the Chase in a straightforward fashion in that stanza and there’s nothing more to it. To them, the first stanza is nothing but an introduction to the Chase/poem. I was like, I never said that f didn’t write it as an introduction but tell me how come you discredit that there could be something more important lurking in there too.

I woke up this morning with this gem, lol...

Hello Forrest,

If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of santa fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest?

Thank you ~Nope
Thank you Nope. Nope. f

F can take this hypothetical scenario and make sure the poem matches the questions’ conditions and then answer. The conditions say no backstory. The searchers who say stanza one is nothing but an introduction or it only talks in detail about f hiding the tc before the Chase started are equating that to some of the backstory of the Chase.

This means that their theory of it’s only part of the backstory dooms them when f answers nope since f had to eliminate all the backstory from his reply. By happenstance, f just also eliminated any potential hint/critical information in that stanza that anyone can use. Remember, the last part of the question is they can only use the rest of the words in the poem. Since f replies that a person can’t reasonably use the rest of the words in the poem to find the tc then, of course, there’s something in stanza 1 that is critical to figure out, like a hint. Because before f has said the (whole) poem is enough to find the tc.

I'm not sure I like this line of reasoning, if I've understood you. You're saying that if the first stanza doesn't contain clues then it is "backstory" and would be ruled out by the conditions of the question? I think "poem" includes all 24 lines no matter if they are clue/hint/or whatever.

That being said, I personally agree with you that there is a clue or so in the first stanza but I don't quite know how to get there, given Forrest's statement that "Begin it where warm waters halt" is the first clue.

His statement about "contiguous" was not about the ordering of the clues. It was about the process of writing the poem and how that resulted in nine clues. In other statements he's said words to the effect that you have to follow the clues consecutively and/or in the right order. That would seem fairly obvious. The question then as to what constitutes the right order becomes important. If "BIWWWH" is the first clue, then what loops you back to the first stanza?
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