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JD Salinger, Terrence Mann, and Field of Dreams
09-16-2017, 05:33 PM,
#1
JD Salinger, Terrence Mann, and Field of Dreams
I was looking for something to watch on TV and found that one of my favorite movies of all time was on – Field of Dreams. We all know how easy it is to make connections between the Chase and other stories, poems, movies etc. whether or not there is any real connection or not. So bear with me and follow along. It is possible that “Field of Dreams” had an influence on Fenn’s designing the Thrill of the Case. Even if it had no direct influence, there are some compelling parallels IMO.

Field of Dreams was based on a novel by W.P. Kinsella titled “Shoeless Joe”. Kinsella’s working title for the novel was “The Kidnapping of J.D. Salinger”. The screenplay for the movie made several changes to the novel and the character Terence Mann (played by James Earl Jones) was created as the reclusive author because Salinger had threatened a lawsuit if his name was used. The name “Ray Kinsella” (the name of the protagonist in the movie) was a character in Salinger’s short story A Young Girl in 1941 With No Waist at All. Richard Kinsella was Holden Caulfield’s classmate in Catcher in the Rye. So when Fenn was exploring “Borders” and found J.D. Salinger, was he hinting at a connection to Field of Dreams? Maybe. Here are some interesting parallels:

To start with, building a baseball field in the middle of an Iowa cornfield and hiding a multimillion dollar treasure in the Rocky Mountains are about equal on the “crazy idea” scale. Why would anyone do such a thing?

What was Forrest hinting at in Important Literature when he was exploring “Borders” and TIME was thrown in the trash? He is exploring the borders between time and timelessness. The last sentence in the book: "I feel my life has been a rough draft of the place just ahead where the past will come alive again and all my experiences and friends through the years will meet me at the great banquet table of history. Then there will be no past.“

Those borders dissolve throughout Field of Dreams, visually shown when the ballplayers appear and disappear into the corn. Even more dramatically when Archie Graham the young ballplayer steps over the baseline into the present as elderly Doc Graham to save Ray’s daughter.

Think about Forrest’s idea about getting people back out into nature.
Terence Mann in Field of Dreams:
“Ray, people will come Ray. They'll come to Iowa for reasons they can't even fathom. They'll turn up your driveway not knowing for sure why they're doing it. They'll arrive at your door as innocent as children, longing for the past. … And they'll watch the game and it'll be as if they dipped themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they'll have to brush them away from their faces. People will come Ray…. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... people will come Ray. People will most definitely come.”

And there is the obvious parallel between the two with the theme of reunion and resolution between father and son. “If you build it, he will come.” “Ease his pain.” Forrest’s father died in 1987, Forrest was facing his own death in 1988. Field of Dreams was released in 1989. I suspect that Forrest’s special place, like Ray Kinsella’s baseball field, is a place where the boundary that separates time and timelessness is dissolved and he is able to spiritually connect to his father and others.
Reply
09-16-2017, 08:19 PM,
#2
RE: JD Salinger, Terrence Mann, and Field of Dreams
Good movie, good thread..
..
..
The right blaze..
...
Reply
09-16-2017, 08:25 PM,
#3
RE: JD Salinger, Terrence Mann, and Field of Dreams
(09-16-2017, 05:55 PM)resa Wrote: I read that he claimed his book wasn't influenced by the writings of others (correct me if I'm wrong),

Dunno what he claimed but the voice he used is basically Holden Caulfield's no matter what he claimed. He's claimed all sorts of manifestly false stuff.
Reply
09-16-2017, 08:48 PM,
#4
RE: JD Salinger, Terrence Mann, and Field of Dreams
(09-16-2017, 05:33 PM)Jack Wrote: I was looking for something to watch on TV and found that one of my favorite movies of all time was on – Field of Dreams. We all know how easy it is to make connections between the Chase and other stories, poems, movies etc. whether or not there is any real connection or not. So bear with me and follow along. It is possible that “Field of Dreams” had an influence on Fenn’s designing the Thrill of the Case. Even if it had no direct influence, there are some compelling parallels IMO.

Field of Dreams was based on a novel by W.P. Kinsella titled “Shoeless Joe”. Kinsella’s working title for the novel was “The Kidnapping of J.D. Salinger”. The screenplay for the movie made several changes to the novel and the character Terence Mann (played by James Earl Jones) was created as the reclusive author because Salinger had threatened a lawsuit if his name was used. The name “Ray Kinsella” (the name of the protagonist in the movie) was a character in Salinger’s short story A Young Girl in 1941 With No Waist at All. Richard Kinsella was Holden Caulfield’s classmate in Catcher in the Rye. So when Fenn was exploring “Borders” and found J.D. Salinger, was he hinting at a connection to Field of Dreams? Maybe. Here are some interesting parallels:

To start with, building a baseball field in the middle of an Iowa cornfield and hiding a multimillion dollar treasure in the Rocky Mountains are about equal on the “crazy idea” scale. Why would anyone do such a thing?

What was Forrest hinting at in Important Literature when he was exploring “Borders” and TIME was thrown in the trash? He is exploring the borders between time and timelessness. The last sentence in the book: "I feel my life has been a rough draft of the place just ahead where the past will come alive again and all my experiences and friends through the years will meet me at the great banquet table of history. Then there will be no past.“

Those borders dissolve throughout Field of Dreams, visually shown when the ballplayers appear and disappear into the corn. Even more dramatically when Archie Graham the young ballplayer steps over the baseline into the present as elderly Doc Graham to save Ray’s daughter.

Think about Forrest’s idea about getting people back out into nature.
Terence Mann in Field of Dreams:
“Ray, people will come Ray. They'll come to Iowa for reasons they can't even fathom. They'll turn up your driveway not knowing for sure why they're doing it. They'll arrive at your door as innocent as children, longing for the past. … And they'll watch the game and it'll be as if they dipped themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they'll have to brush them away from their faces. People will come Ray…. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... people will come Ray. People will most definitely come.”

And there is the obvious parallel between the two with the theme of reunion and resolution between father and son. “If you build it, he will come.” “Ease his pain.” Forrest’s father died in 1987, Forrest was facing his own death in 1988. Field of Dreams was released in 1989. I suspect that Forrest’s special place, like Ray Kinsella’s baseball field, is a place where the boundary that separates time and timelessness is dissolved and he is able to spiritually connect to his father and others.

I think you're getting really close with some of these ideas. But it's mostly the physical parts that relate to my solve even though there could be spiritual parallels.

.
Reply
09-16-2017, 09:49 PM,
#5
RE: JD Salinger, Terrence Mann, and Field of Dreams
(09-16-2017, 08:25 PM)John Brown Wrote:
(09-16-2017, 05:55 PM)resa Wrote: I read that he claimed his book wasn't influenced by the writings of others (correct me if I'm wrong),

Dunno what he claimed but the voice he used is basically Holden Caulfield's no matter what he claimed. He's claimed all sorts of manifestly false stuff.

The book wrote itself., according to Forrest. And I believe him! Smile
Reply
09-16-2017, 10:07 PM,
#6
RE: JD Salinger, Terrence Mann, and Field of Dreams
(09-16-2017, 10:05 PM)Andrew Jef Wrote:
(09-16-2017, 05:33 PM)Jack Wrote: I was looking for something to watch on TV and found that one of my favorite movies of all time was on – Field of Dreams. We all know how easy it is to make connections between the Chase and other stories, poems, movies etc. whether or not there is any real connection or not. So bear with me and follow along. It is possible that “Field of Dreams” had an influence on Fenn’s designing the Thrill of the Case. Even if it had no direct influence, there are some compelling parallels IMO.

Field of Dreams was based on a novel by W.P. Kinsella titled “Shoeless Joe”. Kinsella’s working title for the novel was “The Kidnapping of J.D. Salinger”. The screenplay for the movie made several changes to the novel and the character Terence Mann (played by James Earl Jones) was created as the reclusive author because Salinger had threatened a lawsuit if his name was used. The name “Ray Kinsella” (the name of the protagonist in the movie) was a character in Salinger’s short story A Young Girl in 1941 With No Waist at All. Richard Kinsella was Holden Caulfield’s classmate in Catcher in the Rye. So when Fenn was exploring “Borders” and found J.D. Salinger, was he hinting at a connection to Field of Dreams? Maybe. Here are some interesting parallels:

To start with, building a baseball field in the middle of an Iowa cornfield and hiding a multimillion dollar treasure in the Rocky Mountains are about equal on the “crazy idea” scale. Why would anyone do such a thing?

What was Forrest hinting at in Important Literature when he was exploring “Borders” and TIME was thrown in the trash? He is exploring the borders between time and timelessness. The last sentence in the book: "I feel my life has been a rough draft of the place just ahead where the past will come alive again and all my experiences and friends through the years will meet me at the great banquet table of history. Then there will be no past.“

Those borders dissolve throughout Field of Dreams, visually shown when the ballplayers appear and disappear into the corn. Even more dramatically when Archie Graham the young ballplayer steps over the baseline into the present as elderly Doc Graham to save Ray’s daughter.

Think about Forrest’s idea about getting people back out into nature.
Terence Mann in Field of Dreams:
“Ray, people will come Ray. They'll come to Iowa for reasons they can't even fathom. They'll turn up your driveway not knowing for sure why they're doing it. They'll arrive at your door as innocent as children, longing for the past. … And they'll watch the game and it'll be as if they dipped themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they'll have to brush them away from their faces. People will come Ray…. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... people will come Ray. People will most definitely come.”

And there is the obvious parallel between the two with the theme of reunion and resolution between father and son. “If you build it, he will come.” “Ease his pain.” Forrest’s father died in 1987, Forrest was facing his own death in 1988. Field of Dreams was released in 1989. I suspect that Forrest’s special place, like Ray Kinsella’s baseball field, is a place where the boundary that separates time and timelessness is dissolved and he is able to spiritually connect to his father and others.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Jack, nice post. Regarding your paragraph, I think the hidey space is so
isolated that from there it appears as a "timeless" place that would look
about the same as it did thousands of years ago. It's gorgeous. All IMO.

Isolated in location? Then why did ff say people keep going right past or visiting there? Would you explain what you mean about isolated? (Thanks in advance).
Reply
09-17-2017, 01:21 AM,
#7
RE: JD Salinger, Terrence Mann, and Field of Dreams
(09-16-2017, 05:33 PM)Jack Wrote: I was looking for something to watch on TV and found that one of my favorite movies of all time was on – Field of Dreams. We all know how easy it is to make connections between the Chase and other stories, poems, movies etc. whether or not there is any real connection or not. So bear with me and follow along. It is possible that “Field of Dreams” had an influence on Fenn’s designing the Thrill of the Case. Even if it had no direct influence, there are some compelling parallels IMO.

Field of Dreams was based on a novel by W.P. Kinsella titled “Shoeless Joe”. Kinsella’s working title for the novel was “The Kidnapping of J.D. Salinger”. The screenplay for the movie made several changes to the novel and the character Terence Mann (played by James Earl Jones) was created as the reclusive author because Salinger had threatened a lawsuit if his name was used. The name “Ray Kinsella” (the name of the protagonist in the movie) was a character in Salinger’s short story A Young Girl in 1941 With No Waist at All. Richard Kinsella was Holden Caulfield’s classmate in Catcher in the Rye. So when Fenn was exploring “Borders” and found J.D. Salinger, was he hinting at a connection to Field of Dreams? Maybe. Here are some interesting parallels:

To start with, building a baseball field in the middle of an Iowa cornfield and hiding a multimillion dollar treasure in the Rocky Mountains are about equal on the “crazy idea” scale. Why would anyone do such a thing?

What was Forrest hinting at in Important Literature when he was exploring “Borders” and TIME was thrown in the trash? He is exploring the borders between time and timelessness. The last sentence in the book: "I feel my life has been a rough draft of the place just ahead where the past will come alive again and all my experiences and friends through the years will meet me at the great banquet table of history. Then there will be no past.“

Those borders dissolve throughout Field of Dreams, visually shown when the ballplayers appear and disappear into the corn. Even more dramatically when Archie Graham the young ballplayer steps over the baseline into the present as elderly Doc Graham to save Ray’s daughter.

Think about Forrest’s idea about getting people back out into nature.
Terence Mann in Field of Dreams:
“Ray, people will come Ray. They'll come to Iowa for reasons they can't even fathom. They'll turn up your driveway not knowing for sure why they're doing it. They'll arrive at your door as innocent as children, longing for the past. … And they'll watch the game and it'll be as if they dipped themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they'll have to brush them away from their faces. People will come Ray…. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... people will come Ray. People will most definitely come.”

And there is the obvious parallel between the two with the theme of reunion and resolution between father and son. “If you build it, he will come.” “Ease his pain.” Forrest’s father died in 1987, Forrest was facing his own death in 1988. Field of Dreams was released in 1989. I suspect that Forrest’s special place, like Ray Kinsella’s baseball field, is a place where the boundary that separates time and timelessness is dissolved and he is able to spiritually connect to his father and others.

Nice post, Jack!

[Image: giphy.gif]
Reply
09-17-2017, 02:09 AM,
#8
RE: JD Salinger, Terrence Mann, and Field of Dreams
(09-16-2017, 05:33 PM)Jack Wrote: I was looking for something to watch on TV and found that one of my favorite movies of all time was on – Field of Dreams. We all know how easy it is to make connections between the Chase and other stories, poems, movies etc. whether or not there is any real connection or not. So bear with me and follow along. It is possible that “Field of Dreams” had an influence on Fenn’s designing the Thrill of the Case. Even if it had no direct influence, there are some compelling parallels IMO.

Field of Dreams was based on a novel by W.P. Kinsella titled “Shoeless Joe”. Kinsella’s working title for the novel was “The Kidnapping of J.D. Salinger”. The screenplay for the movie made several changes to the novel and the character Terence Mann (played by James Earl Jones) was created as the reclusive author because Salinger had threatened a lawsuit if his name was used. The name “Ray Kinsella” (the name of the protagonist in the movie) was a character in Salinger’s short story A Young Girl in 1941 With No Waist at All. Richard Kinsella was Holden Caulfield’s classmate in Catcher in the Rye. So when Fenn was exploring “Borders” and found J.D. Salinger, was he hinting at a connection to Field of Dreams? Maybe. Here are some interesting parallels:

To start with, building a baseball field in the middle of an Iowa cornfield and hiding a multimillion dollar treasure in the Rocky Mountains are about equal on the “crazy idea” scale. Why would anyone do such a thing?

What was Forrest hinting at in Important Literature when he was exploring “Borders” and TIME was thrown in the trash? He is exploring the borders between time and timelessness. The last sentence in the book: "I feel my life has been a rough draft of the place just ahead where the past will come alive again and all my experiences and friends through the years will meet me at the great banquet table of history. Then there will be no past.“

Those borders dissolve throughout Field of Dreams, visually shown when the ballplayers appear and disappear into the corn. Even more dramatically when Archie Graham the young ballplayer steps over the baseline into the present as elderly Doc Graham to save Ray’s daughter.

Think about Forrest’s idea about getting people back out into nature.
Terence Mann in Field of Dreams:
“Ray, people will come Ray. They'll come to Iowa for reasons they can't even fathom. They'll turn up your driveway not knowing for sure why they're doing it. They'll arrive at your door as innocent as children, longing for the past. … And they'll watch the game and it'll be as if they dipped themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they'll have to brush them away from their faces. People will come Ray…. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... people will come Ray. People will most definitely come.”

And there is the obvious parallel between the two with the theme of reunion and resolution between father and son. “If you build it, he will come.” “Ease his pain.” Forrest’s father died in 1987, Forrest was facing his own death in 1988. Field of Dreams was released in 1989. I suspect that Forrest’s special place, like Ray Kinsella’s baseball field, is a place where the boundary that separates time and timelessness is dissolved and he is able to spiritually connect to his father and others.

Great post as usual. Just saying the words 'Once upon a While' is like pointing a spotlight at Time. My 4yo granddaughter could figure that one out. He's not just putting handwriting on the wall, he's putting up billboards.
Reply
09-17-2017, 07:00 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-17-2017, 07:26 AM by Jack.)
#9
RE: JD Salinger, Terrence Mann, and Field of Dreams
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Jack, nice post. Regarding your paragraph, I think the hidey space is so
isolated that from there it appears as a "timeless" place that would look
about the same as it did thousands of years ago. It's gorgeous. All IMO.
[/quote]


John Kinsella: Is this heaven?
Ray Kinsella: It's Iowa.
John Kinsella: Iowa? I could have sworn this was heaven.
John Kinsella: Oh yeah. It's the place where dreams come true.
Ray Kinsella: [Ray looks around, seeing his wife playing with their daughter on the porch] Maybe this is heaven.

"Nevertheless, the story about my treasure chest is true,
and if it doesn’t stir your spirit then I hope at least it brings a smile
in one of your dreams."

Jack, nice post. Regarding your paragraph, I think the hidey space is so
isolated that from there it appears as a "timeless" place that would look
about the same as it did thousands of years ago. It's gorgeous. All IMO.
[/quote]

Isolated in location? Then why did ff say people keep going right past or visiting there? Would you explain what you mean about isolated? (Thanks in advance).
[/quote]

Think about Ray Kinsella's in-laws who are standing on the field but can't see the players.
Reply
09-19-2017, 05:27 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-19-2017, 05:55 AM by Buddy Allen.)
#10
RE: JD Salinger, Terrence Mann, and Field of Dreams
I think that this ties in nicely as to why ff doesn't want to say when he hid the tc. Time is an important part of the correct solution, as in season.

Oh, and last scene Burt Lancaster ever filmed. Moonlight Graham a real ballplayer who became a Doc. How's that for pretty cool?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6bD23vEigE
Reply


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