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Turtle Dove and Phoenix
04-17-2018, 06:32 PM,
Turtle Dove and Phoenix
Turtle dove -

Perhaps because of Biblical references (especially the well-known verse from the Song of Songs), its mournful voice, and the fact that it forms strong pair bonds, European turtle doves have become emblems of devoted love. In the New Testament, two turtle doves are mentioned as the customary offeringduring the Presentation of Jesus at the Temple.[17] In Renaissance Europe, the European turtle dove was envisaged as the devoted partner of the Phoenix. Robert Chester's poem Love's Martyr is a sustained exploration of this symbolism. It was published along with other poems on the subject, including William Shakespeare's poem "The Phoenix and the Turtle" (where "turtle" refers to the turtle dove).

It was first published in 1601 as a supplement to a long poem by Robert Chester, entitled Love's Martyr. The full title of Chester's book explains the content:

Love's Martyr: or Rosalins Complaint. Allegorically shadowing the truth of Love, in the constant Fate of the Phoenix and Turtle. A Poeme enterlaced with much varietie and raritie; now first translated out of the venerable Italian Torquato Caeliano, by Robert Chester. With the true legend of famous King Arthur the last of the nine Worthies, being the first Essay of a new Brytish Poet: collected out of diuerse Authenticall Records. To these are added some new compositions of several modern Writers whose names are subscribed to their seuerall workes, vpon the first subiect viz. the Phoenix and Turtle.
Chester prefaced his poem with a short dedication addressed to the Phoenix and Turtledove. The Phoenix is envisaged as female and the dove as male:

Phoenix of beautie, beauteous, Bird of any
To thee I do entitle all my labour,
More precious in mine eye by far then many
That feedst all earthly sences with thy savour:
Accept my home-writ praises of thy love,
And kind acceptance of thy Turtle-dove

Chester's main poem is a long allegory in which the relationship between the birds is explored, and its symbolism articulated. It incorporates the story of King Arthur, and a history of ancient Britain, emphasising Welsh etymologies for British towns. It culminates with the joint immolation of the Phoenix and Turtledove, giving birth to a new and more beautiful bird from the ashes. It also includes several allegorical love poems within it, supposed to have been written by the Turtledove to the Phoenix.

In addition to an allegory of an ideal marriage, the poem can be seen as an elucidation of the relationship between truth and beauty, or of fulfilled love, in the context of Renaissance Neoplatonism.[3]It also seems that the roots of this conception of perfect love lie not only in scholastic sources regarding the union of persons in the Trinity, but also in the confluence of three other lines of medieval Catholic tradition: the literary traditions of mystical union, spiritual friendship, and spiritual marriage [4]Shakespeare introduces a number of other birds, drawing on earlier literature about the "parliament of birds", to portray the death of the lovers as the loss of an ideal that can only be lamented.

Several attempts have been made to link the lovers of the poem to historical individuals, though others have argued that the poem should not be interpreted with "appliqué literalism", in the words of James P. Bednarz.[5] Indeed, exponents of the New Criticismsuch as I. A. Richards and William Empsonemphasised the unresolvable nature of the text's ambiguities.[5] Helen Hackett argues that the poem "invites deciphering, but at the same time firmly rebuff it."[6]

An alternative is to interpret the Turtle as John Salusbury and the Phoenix as Queen Elizabeth I, which would explain the chastity of the relationship and the implication that their "child" is something mystical rather than physical. Elizabeth was often connected to the phoenix, and she is referred to as the "maiden phoenix" in the play Henry VIII, partly written by Shakespeare (though the "maiden phoenix" passage is typically attributed to John Fletcher). Two panel portraits attributed to Nicholas Hilliard are known as the "Phoenix" and "Pelican" portraits because of jewels the queen wears: her personal badges of the pelican and the phoenix. Both birds appear in Chester's main poem. An objection is that the intimacy between the lovers seems rather too strong for Salusbury and the queen.[5]

The opening stanza places us in Arabia—already an Eastward shift of scene, naturally significant in the work of a dramatist. The “sole Arabian tree” links up with the Qur’anic sidrat al-muntaha, “Lote Tree of the Utmost Limit,” that marks the boundary of the seventh heaven.
Let the bird of loudest lay,
On the sole Arabian tree,
Herald sad and trumpet be,
To whose sound chaste wings obey.

Let the priest in surplice white,
That defunctive music can,
Be the death-divining swan,
Lest the requiem lack his right.
And thou, treble-dated crow,
That thy sable gender mak’st
With the breath thou giv’st and tak’st,
’Mongst our mourners shalt thou go.
The poet warns off undesireable birds in stanzas 2 and 3, a familiar pattern in superstition and occultism: One must actively exclude evil or malignant spirits from a sacred site or ceremony. A key for what comes next is “precurrer,” chosen instead of precursor because it contains the word “recur.” This word refers both to the Phoenix’s periodic return to its immolation-grounds and to its rebirth.

Note that the self-immolating Phoenix is, in the poem, a female. Shaivite myth speaks of a Goddess’s self-immolation—a story which prompted, in some parts of India, the practice of sati, kindred image of a couple’s joint immolation.
Indeed, much of the poem’s mystical resonance comes from the play on the numbers two and one. The abolition of the division between self and God has been called many things: Fana’a by the Sufis, moksha by the Upanishads, the unio mystica by Meister Eckhart. It cannot be attained by reason, or in the poem’s words, it “confounds” reason. This is the context in which the next stanzas make sense.

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04-17-2018, 07:58 PM,
RE: Turtle Dove and Phoenix
What about the second day of Christmas? = two turtle doves, and a partridge in a pear tree.
05-10-2018, 10:42 PM,
RE: Turtle Dove and Phoenix
Deeepthinkr wonders if hue have found the phoenix? And if sew what purple monstrosity dances in your theater?
05-10-2018, 10:55 PM,
RE: Turtle Dove and Phoenix
Very inspirational. Hope you're doing well 5G.
05-10-2018, 10:59 PM,
RE: Turtle Dove and Phoenix
Very Blessed , thank you. Each day I am able to work is a good day.
05-10-2018, 11:21 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-10-2018, 11:21 PM by Becky from WV.)
RE: Turtle Dove and Phoenix
@Mindy - What does any of your post have to do with searching for the treasure? You keep starting threads that are way too involved to apply to FF's Chase. What are your points with any of this stuff?

Read TTOTC, find the hints (aberrations), marry them with the poem clues, ... find the treasure location. According to FF, that's the correct way to the treasure. Stick with the book ... FF's written words. You need to stop guessing & making this harder than it needs to be.
05-11-2018, 12:02 PM,
Turtle Dove and Phoenix
(05-11-2018, 11:53 AM)realistrealist Wrote:
(05-10-2018, 10:55 PM)TheLastCrusade Wrote: Very inspirational. Hope you're doing well 5G.

I've been thinking more that perhaps the blaze has a bit to do with Inspiration Point in Yellowstone.

Mindy, the most notable symbol meaning for the dove with respect to the Christian Bible is the Holy Spirit. I do find it a bit interesting with respect to the poem's elements:

You have heavy loads and water high prior to the blaze.

It may refer to a place as well as purification by water and cleansing of heavy sins. Maybe something like Buffalo Ford or Glacier Boulder near Inspiration Point.

Look quickly down could be referring to foundry. The Holy Spirit (also named Spirit of Wisdom) "visibly manifested as tongues of fire at Pentecost and ever since associated – in the Christian as in the Stoic mind – with the ideas of vital fire and beneficient warmth."

Then again you could go the other way with Adam and Eve and the Tree of Knowledge (Wisdom). This is why I don't like interpreting lol. Devil's Den could be seen as the wisdom and blaze.

The name of the places must be exact; however, as research shouldn't be needed to find the correct end point.

If you look very close at the map in tftw, the “spirit” is there. In light green...

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